Elor Azaria, a former IDF medic who was imprisoned after being convicted for manslaughter for shooting a Palestinian terrorist in Hebron who had already been subdued by IDF forces, is embarking on a new venture – Victoire Boutique, a bakery and café that will open in his home town of Ramle on Sunday, April 11.

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The name is a significant one for him: "This is my victory," he says.

Azaria, now 25, says, "It's where I was five years ago and where I am now. But no less than that, it's also the name of my uncle, my father's brother, Victor Azaria, who died of a heart attack last summer. Actually, I feel like it's a victory for both of us."

Some three years after Azaria was released from prison after having his sentence commuted for good behavior, Azaria talks to Israel Hayom about what his life has been like.

He admits that to a large extent, prison caused his life to come to a halt. "Time passes, but for me, it stopped, and I never really went on. Definitely not in my heart. I tried to move ahead with life itself. I wanted to go on, but a lot of doors were closed to me, both because of my criminal record and because I'm Elor Azaria."

Azaria discusses a book he is working on. Two years ago, he launched a crowdfunding campaign for the book, which he is calling "From Darkness to Light" (a Hebrew play on his first name), which he hopes will be published some time this year. Azaria says the book is intended to "prove that I'm innocent. I'll show that I was wronged. In a normal country, there would be people who should be put on trial for what they did to me. The book will include a lot of details that nobody knows."

Azaria makes it clear that he is at peace with what he did that day in Hebron. "If you put me back in that same situation, I'd do the same thing, because I did what I should have."

In the meantime, he has completed his course of study to become a patissier, and went on to an advanced bakery course. He launched the café and bakery as a joint venture with his older brother, Adir.

While the business gets on its feet, it will be selling baked treats from suppliers, whom Azaria says he "picked really carefully."

The selection will include bread, rolls, bourekas, croissants, cream cakes. "Soon, God willing, I'll start selling baked goods and desserts that I make – tarts and tartlettes, churros, and I'll have a section of sugar-free baked goods," he says.

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Dershowitz did not hesitate. Within days, he filed a slander lawsuit against Lass and Radio FM103 in the Tel Aviv District Court, seeking 4 million shekels (nearly $1.18 million) in damages. The apology followed the lawsuit. 

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"These remarks were based on a mistake of mine. I would like to apologize to Professor Dershowitz. I'm very sorry if he was offended," Lass said.

But for Dershowitz, 82, the apology wasn't enough. Not when the matter touched on what he calls the fight of his life, to discredit claims by Virginia Roberts Giuffre that she was one of the victims of billionaire sex criminal Jeffrey Epstein and that Epstein trafficked her and ordered her to have sex with his associates, including Dershowitz.

"He made outrageous, lying statements about me. He defamed me, and he kind of apologized, but not enough," Dershowitz tells Israel Hayom via Zoom from his vacation home on Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts, in an interview after Yom Kippur.

"He said I admitted having sex with, raping people. Admitted it! I've spent my life disproving it. He's an ignorant fool, and he's now apologized, kind of, but that's not going to change our view. We're still going forward with the lawsuit. We have to send a message to journalists all over the country, all over the world – they cannot get away with making false, defamatory statements without fact-checking, without calling the person. There has to be accountability. 

"I strongly believe in the right of the media, the right of the press, even the right of the press to be wrong, if their mistakes are honest mistakes. But to say what he said about me, without any basis, and then to think that a half-way apology will get him off the hook is not good enough.

"He should not be on the air. He has shown irresponsibility. If the station is to be a responsible station, he should be fired, and then he should have to pay damages. After my legal fees and expenses, I'll contribute the damages to charities. The charities I've identified at the moment are United Hazolah, Aleph – an organization that helps defend Jews in prison all over the world, and anti-BDS.

"I'm not doing this for myself. I'm doing this to help my voice defend Israel. I'm doing this on behalf of everybody who's been falsely accused," he asserted.  

"I'm going to spend the rest of my life in court, defending my reputation and my good name, and mostly defending 'emet,' defending truth. I will fight back until the day I die, and then my wife will take over, and when she dies, my children will take over, and when they die, my grandchildren will take over. We will fight this until the end, until it is clear and admitted by the lawyers and the woman that she made up the whole story.

"In 55 years, I've never seen a case like this. In every other case I've had," he continued. "It's a gray area. Most of these cases are people who have known the other person, maybe they've had sex with them and the question is was it voluntary or involuntary – she worked for him, did he touch her, was it harassment, was a joke over the line? There's a gray area. In my case, I never met or saw the woman. Period. Nothing.

"The vast majority of women who make claims of rape or sexual assault are telling the truth, of course. Why would they lie? But there have been cases, mine is the most extreme, where the women do it purely for money."

However, Dershowitz says, his case is rare in that the accusation against him is entirely false, and he has never met Giuffre. Even though he has proof that dismantles her claims, her false accusations are enough for him to be perceived as guilty, he says, noting that there is no longer a presumption of innocence: "If it happened to me, it could happen to any man or women."

"It's too easy to falsely accuse. Especially with social media, the accusation becomes the conviction. That's why I called my book Guilt by Accusation. If you're accused, you're guilty. There's no responding. That's why we need the courts to respond. We need defamation laws.

'Baseless accusations'

The complicated and ongoing sexual crimes case continues to unfold more than a year after Epstein committed suicide in his Manhattan jail cell. Epstein was arrested in 2008 after a lengthy investigation by the Palm Beach police and the FBI, on suspicion of sexual crimes against underage girls, including sex trafficking and trafficking.

Dershowitz, a professor emeritus at Harvard Law School and one of the foremost experts on criminal law, was part of the defense team that secured a plea bargain under which Epstein served only 13 months in prison. Not only that, but under Florida law, Epstein received permission to continue working for much of his time in prison, so six days a week he would leave prison at 8 a.m. and come back at 8 p.m.

The years after the plea bargain were filled with failed attempts to secure justice by dozens of women who claimed to be victims of sexual exploitation and trafficking. Most of them were minors from tough backgrounds. After a series of investigative journalism articles, authorities in the US launched legal proceedings against Epstein and in July 2019 he was arrested again. The details of the plea bargain were reexamined, both by the public and legally.

The deal was characterized as a "sweetheart deal," in which one side is given far-reaching easements at the expense of the other sides and the good of the public. It was strongly criticized, and a New York federal court ruled that the victims had been deceived and their rights violated. Then-Labor Secretary Alexander Acosta, which in 2008 had been the federal prosecutor for the Southern District of Florida and approved the deal, was forced to resign. Shortly after Epstein was arrested, the prosecutor for the Southern District of New York decided to try him on serious criminal charges such as sex trafficking of minors, conspiracy to traffic women, and bribing witnesses.

On Aug. 10, 2019, Epstein was found in his jail cell, having hanged himself. But the affair wasn't over. Three months ago, the FBI managed to locate and arrest Ghislaine Maxwell, the daughter of media mogul Robert Maxwell. For years, people have claimed that she was allegedly a partner in Epstein's sex industry. Maxwell, Epstein's ex-girlfriend who maintained close ties with him, is being accused, among other things, of conspiracy to entice minors to travel to engage in illicit sex acts and conspiracy to transport minors with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity. She denies all the claims being made against her. After the affair came to light, Netflix produced the documentary series Jeffrey Epstein: Filthy Rich, which premiered this past May.

Giuffre's claims against Dershowitz were first raised at the end of 2014 during legal proceedings after several victims claimed that the prosecutors and the court in the Epstein case had not presented them with the details of Epstein's plea bargain or allowed them to express their opinions about it before it was signed, as the law on victims' rights requires. Giuffre, anonymously at the time, claimed that Epstein had sex trafficked her, and in her accusations mentioned Dershowitz's name. Giuffree claims that she had sex with Dershowitz at least six times – at Epstein's home in New Mexico; on one of his private planes, and on Epstein's private island Little St. James, which was also called Orgy Island or Pedophile Island, among other locations.

Dershowitz says he never heard those names for the island, although he had heard it called "Little St. Jeff."

"The original accusation was at the end of 2014, but I won that. It was over. Nobody knew she had made a false accusation. Her lawyers settled the lawsuit with me and admitted it was wrong. Then came the #MeToo movement and it all got resurrected, and then came Netflix, and that was the final blow that persuaded many people that it must be true. But the accusation has become more believed since Netflix and the #MeToo movement than it was before.

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Dershowitz explains that because Giuffree's claims originally appeared in internal court documents, he had no legal recourse. He demanded that the court expunge them because he had no way of defending himself against the allegations.

"The federal judge struck the accusation from the record as irrelevant and impertinent, and Giuffre's lawyers admitted it had been a 'mistake' for her to file it," he writes in his book.

But later, Dershowitz said, details started being leaked to the media. He is convinced that Giuffre and her lawyer were doing it intentionally. Dershowitz was asked to respond, and then parts of the lies started to come to light.

On-camera accusations

Giuffre sued Dershowitz for his adamant repudiation of her accusations after they were reported in the media. He immediately counter-sued.

"I couldn't sue her originally because all of her accusations were made in court papers [litigation privilege]. So I waited until she made the accusations on Netflix and then I amended the lawsuit because that's not privileged. What she said on Netflix is clear defamation. She claimed she had sex with me six times – I never met her. Categorically, I will swear on the life of my children and grandchildren. I never touched her, never had sex with her, never to my knowledge met her. Totally made-up story from beginning to end.

"I've had 10,000 students, probably 3,000 or 4,000 of whom were women. Many research assistants who were women. Many colleagues who were women. No one has ever made even an allegation of touching or an improper joke or anything.

In the Netflix series, Giuffre makes her accusations explicitly, on camera, which allowed Dershowitz to sue her in the Southern District Federal Court of New York, which he did in June. He is demanding, in addition to damages, that "every single detail of her claims against me and my detailed responses be made part of the legal proceeding, in front of a jury."

Q: In June, you sent Netflix a letter, warning them you would sue because they had broadcast her accusations.

"The director said, 'Why don't you challenge her to accuse you on camera?' I said, yeah, I'll be happy to do that because that way, if she [Giuffre] accuses me on camera, I can sue her and she can't say she only accused me in court papers. I said, I'll say it on camera if you promise to give me an opportunity to respond. And she [the director] did, in front of my wife. She didn't give me the opportunity. That's why we're suing them. We're suing them for breach of contract. Also, they didn't have to wait for my book to know. They had in their possession – I had already given them – the emails, the tape of the lawyer, the tape of her best friend. They promised me in writing that they would use all of that material. They didn't use it on the show at all.

"We have emails where she's being told who I am," he says. In one, Giuffre asks a journalist, via email, "Just wondering if you have any information on you from when you and I were doing interviews about the JE story. I wanted to put the names of some of these …. JE sent me to."

The journalist responds: "Don't forget Alan Dershowitz ... JE's buddy and lawyer. Good name for your pitch as he repped Claus von Bulow and a movie was made about that case … title was Reversal of Fortune. We all suspect Alan is a pedo and tho no proof of that, you probably met him when he was hanging out w JE."

Giuffre responds: 'Thanks again… I'm bringing down the house with this book!!!"

What's more, Dershowitz says, "Her best friend has a tape where [Giuffre] admitted that she never wanted to include me, because I never met her, but she was pressured to include me by her lawyers. I have a tape of her lawyer saying she's wrong, simply wrong, that I couldn't have been in the places she said I was in, that she clearly made a mistake. He argues it was a mistake. He admits it was wrong for her to accuse me.

"My accuser made up a whole story about Al Gore. Virginia Giuffre has this long account in her book of how she had dinner with Al Gore and Tipper Gore on Jeffrey Epstein's island. Only one problem – Al Gore and Tipper Gore never met Jeffrey Epstein, didn't know him, were never on the island. She got paid $160,000 [from the Daily Mail] to make up that and other stories about innocent people like Al Gore, and they [Netflix] didn't run that, either."

"I want everything out, every piece of paper. Every document, every interview, everything. I want it to be made public because I have nothing to hide. My life is an open book.

"We can account for every single day of my life between the day Giuffre met Jeffrey Epstein and the day she left, two and a half years. I can prove where I was on that day and where I wasn't. I have American Express records, telephone records, cell phone records, TV appearance records, records of my teaching, records of my court appearances, and I can prove that it is literally impossible for me to have been in the places where she claims she had sex with me seven times.

"I have never done anything wrong in my private life. Period. I have never hugged a woman inappropriately, I've never touched a woman inappropriately. During the relevant period, I've had sexual contact with one person, my wife. I have nothing to hide. I don't think that's true of all the other people who are being accused. I understand why people who have something to hide would say, 'Let's just let this thing slide away.'

"But I've lived a completely open and honorable private life. I'm controversial in my public life. Defending President Trump is very controversial. Defending O.J. Simpson is very controversial. But my private life has been without blemish. Fifty years at Harvard, not a single complaint. I had 25 female research assistants, 25 female secretaries, I've worked with women all over the world – not a single complaint ever. I think almost none of the other people who are accused can say that.

"If you've been falsely accused but you did things you're embarrassed about, maybe the best thing is just 'No comment.' But if you've falsely accused like me and you did nothing, period, you have nothing to hide, your life is an open book, you have to fight back, and I'm fighting back."

'I didn't like what I discovered'

Q: You were Epstein's friend before you were his attorney, and he was one of the small circle of people who read your book manuscripts before they were published. What happened that caused you to stop representing him in 2008?

"I had a relationship with him until the day he was arrested. That relationship ended and it became a formal legal relationship where he paid me for every single second that I advised him. My relationship with him ended when he pleaded guilty. I no longer had any relationship with him, never saw him after that for years and years. He would call me occasionally as his lawyer. I didn't socialize with him, I didn't go to his home, I didn't fly on his airplane, I had no personal relationship with him from that point on."

Q: Why?

"I didn't like what he had done. At that point, I found out things about him that I didn't know. When I first knew him, I didn't know there were any young women in his life. I never saw him with any young people.

"I'm not claiming he's innocent and I'm not ruling out the possibility that Giuffre was one of his victims. What is absolutely certain is that I am a victim of her false accusations."

Q: In the series, you staunchly defend the plea bargain he was given, thanks to you.

"I was one of a group of about 10 lawyers who got the plea deal. I'm very proud of it. That's my job. I'm proud of being a lawyer and getting the best deal I possibly can for my clients. Would you want me to get the worst deal for my client?

"My job is to win on behalf of my client, like a doctor's job is to cure. I'm happy to defend myself, but that shouldn't expose me to false charges of sexual misconduct. The two have nothing to do with each other.  

"If you want to blame anyone for that [the plea bargain], you blame the prosecutor. You blame the judge. But the one person you can't blame is the defense attorney. The defense attorney's job is to get the best deal. I was not involved in any aspect of the deal except that he would plead to a state charge, not a federal charge, because they didn't have a good federal case against him. They didn't have any evidence that they had transported young women in interstate commerce. So the deal was he would plead to a state case, go to jail, have to register as a sex offender, but would not be prosecuted federally. Had he been prosecuted federally, we probably would have won the case, because they didn't have the evidence."

Dershowitz says that Epstein was "furious" over the plea bargain. "He didn't even want to pay his bill because he thought he should never have been convicted of a felony or had to register as a sex offender." 

Q: If Epstein were alive and asked you to represent him in this case, would you?

"I don't usually defend people twice, so I wouldn't defend him. I believe everyone is entitled to a defense, and the more unpopular you are, the more you're entitled to a defense.

"I will represent anyone accused of any crime as long as several criteria are met: Number one, they're not fugitives. Number two, they're not in the business of continuing to commit crimes. And I haven't represented them before. Now, Epstein might not fit that second criteria. If I believed he was continuing to do criminal acts, I wouldn't have represented him.

"Since that time, Harvey Weinstein's lawyer called me and asked me to advise and consult. It was Harvey Weinstein. Everybody hated Harvey Weinstein. But I decided no, he had a legal claim and I would help. I do represent people who everybody hates. I will continue to do that. I've taught my students for 50 years that you must be the lawyer of last resort. I'm now representing [Wikileaks founder] Julian Assange. People hate Julian Assange, and I'm going to help defend him in the United States.

'Willing to lie for money'

As part of the war he is waging, Dershowitz published a book, Guilt by Accusation: The Challenge of Proving Innocence in the Age of #MeToo, about the affair that includes evidence that he claims proves his innocence.

"All my friends told me not to write this book. My friends told me, don't write this book, it will just bring more attention to the accusations. Just let them go away. That's not my goal. I don't want to end my life with people thinking I let an accusation like this just slide. My goal is to completely, totally, categorically, disprove the allegations. Not for my sake, but for the sake of everybody who has been falsely accused.

"My determination is also to see that there are consequences for those who got together and conspired to try to destroy my career and life by willfully and deliberately falsely accusing me of something they know I didn't do.

"This was a deliberate, willful conspiracy by a group of sleazy lawyers, unethical lawyers, and a client willing to lie to make money, to destroy my reputation.  

"The plan was a very elegant and simple and disgraceful plan – we'll accuse Dershowitz in public of having sex with a woman he never met, seven times, in places he was never at during the relevant time period. We'll do that in public, and they can go to [others] and say 'We can do to you what we did to Dershowitz.'"

Dershowitz's book opens with a note to readers: "The #MeToo movement has generally been a force for good, but as with many good movements, it is being exploited by some bad people for personal profit. Supporters of the #MeToo movement must not allow false accusers to hurt real victims by hiding behind its virtuous shield, turning it into an exploitative sword against innocent people."

Q: Why was it important to you to write that introduction?

"Because the #MeToo spirit made it possible to attack me.

"I would never want to attack the #MeToo movement. It's a good movement, but when abused, it has to be exposed. Because people who make false accusations under the #MeToo movement endanger the #MeToo movement and endanger the credibility of real victims. When I win my lawsuits, I'll donate the money not only to causes to defend the wrongly accused, but to causes the create opportunities to go after people who are correctly accused. For women who have truthfully accused, I want to put money there, and also put money for people who have been falsely accused. They're not inconsistent. They're completely consistent, because both sides should be in favor of 'emet' [truth]."

Dershowitz says, "If I win the money from these people I'm going to give it to Aleph, and other organizations. to aid for sexual assault victims and victims of false accusations, because they are on the exact same side: the side of the truth. Along with them, I'll donate to groups that fight BDS, to the Aleph Institute that helps get Jewish and Israeli prisoners all over the world released, and Hazolah."

Hazolah is one of a long list of Jewish and Israeli organizations that Dershowitz has volunteered for or donated to for decades.

"My wife and I have an ambucycle named after us. Every time the ambucycle saves a life, we get an email."

Dershowitz was born in Williamsburg, Brooklyn to an Orthodox Jewish family. He went to Yeshiva University High School and studied law at Yale. In 1964 he was appointed a lecturer at Harvard University Law School, where he worked until 2013. He divides his time between his apartments in Manhattan and Miami Beach, and every summer he vacations on Martha's Vineyard.

Dershowitz has published 46 books, some of which deal with Israel. His last book, Confirming Justice or Injustice: A Guide to the Confirmation Process, which focuses on the process of appointing the new US Supreme Court justice, was written and published in eight days.

Over the years, he has represented notable personalities, including Jonathan Pollard, O.J. Simpson, Mike Tyson, and many others. In Guilt by Accusation, he writes: "I represented half my clients pro bone. These included many women, some of whom were victims of sexual, physical, and psychological assaults. Some of my female clients are well-known, like Mia Farrow, Patricia Heart … and Maryam Rajavi; some are not, like the woman whose husband locked her up in a mental hospital, the wife who killed her abusive husband, the Harvard student who was sexually harassed by her professor."  

Dershowitz tells Israel Hayom: "The most important case I ever did in my life was Natan Sharansky. I was his lawyer along with Irwin Cotler, helping him get out of prison. When he walked over the Glienicke Bridge, I had tears in my eyes. It was one of the greatest moments of my legal career. For me, the case I did with Irwin Cotler involving Natan Sharansky is the singular most important case of my long career. It's a pleasure occasionally to represent a really good person, a nice person, and innocent person. Criminal lawyers don't get to do that too often. We're more likely to be representing Epsteins and Simpsons and Von Bulows. I represented Sharansky for eight years, for free. I even paid all my own legal expenses."

'My voice was silenced'

Dershowitz is one of the most prominent, eloquent, devoted, and influential advocates for Israel, but he says that Giuffre's accusations have resulted in him being "canceled." 

"I can no longer go on college campuses and speak in defense of Israel. And that's had a big impact, because with people like the 'Squad' going on college campuses and talking against Israel, normally they would ask me to come and respond. But I'm no longer allowed to speak on college campuses because feminists will protest that I'm an accused rapist, child molester, whatever you want to call it. So it's resulted in me being silence and canceled in my defense of Israel, and that's one of the reasons I'm fighting back so strongly against this. I want to be able to go back on campus."

"It started with the accusation, but it's become much worse after the Netflix [series]," Dershowitz says. What's more, Jewish organizations are no longer inviting him to speak.

"They said, 'We know you're innocent, but there are too many protesters, too much trouble. Temple Emmanu-El in New York, the largest synagogue, canceled me. I am no longer getting invitations to speak at Jewish book fairs, or book fairs in general."

"It's like McCarthyism. During McCarthyism, people were not allowed to appear, not because they were guilty, but because they didn't want trouble. It's an absolute disgrace that the 92nd St. Y, a Jewish place for speakers, would cancel me after 25 years. I was the second most frequent and popular speaker after Elie Wiesel. And I have to tell you, if Elie Wiesel were alive today, he would never again speak at the 92nd St. Y. He would be so appalled at them canceling me he would never speak there. I know that."

"It just shows you what can happen to a good person who's lived an honorable life and tried his best never to do anything immoral or improper. It can be destroyed by one accusation by a woman with a long history of lying."

On the office wall behind him dozens of pictures are hung close together. There is a drawing of a pioneer that he was given by the JNF, a caricature of him from when he was defending Claus von Bulow (about which the film Reversal of Fortune was made), honorary doctorates, and pictures of him with American and Israeli leaders, including one with Golda Meir in her office.

"I met with Golda many times." He looks at the picture and smiles. "She made me tea, and she invited me to her house, tea, and we just sat around and schmoozed."

"In 1970, her best friend in America, Arthur Goldberg, who she grew up with, was a justice on the Supreme Court. Arthur told me that she loves unfiltered Lucky Strike cigarettes. He told me to smuggle a carton of Lucky Strikes to her and she would be forever grateful. So took the cigarettes and put them in the bottom of my leg. I strapped them to my leg, because they told me her security wouldn't allow me to bring her cigarettes. So as soon as I walked into her office I picked up the leg of my pants, took the cigarettes and presented them to her. She said, 'Arthur and Dorothy, right? They always send me cigarettes.'

"I've known all the prime ministers of Israel since Golda Meir," Dershowitz says, regardless of their party affiliation. "I'm there for Israel."  

In the past few decades, Dershowitz has been involved in attempts to broker peace between Israel and the Palestinians, as well as other issues pertaining to Israel, like Iran's nuclear weapons program. More recently, he was involved in authoring the Trump administration's peace plan and promoting normalization between Israel and Gulf Arab states.

At the start of 2018, he says, President Trump reached out to him to hear his opinions, and for a few days he joined Trump's team members who were talking about the details of the Trump peace plan, including Jared Kushner and Avi Berkowitz.

"Since 1970 I've consistently expressed the opinion that the two-state solution must be promoted, but on the condition that the Palestinian state be demilitarized, the Jordan Valley remain under Israeli sovereignty, and Israel's security interests are carefully upheld. I've met with Abu Mazen [Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud] and Saeb Erekat a few times, and I felt that we could reach an agreement. I still believe that. I'll always be the first to enlist to help preserve the strong ties between Israel and the US and to protect Israel and its interests," Dershowitz says.

Q: You spoke up in defense of Prime Minister Netanyahu and said he should not face trial.

"I do not believe that Netanyahu committed any legitimate crimes. Prime ministers always negotiate with the media about good coverage and bad coverage. If you wanted to start indicting people, how about indicting the 45 members of the Knesset who wrote against Israel Hayom in order to get good coverage in Yedioth Ahronoth?

"You don't want to criminalize that.  I go back a long time with [attorney general] Avi Mendelblit, who I also like very much. I believe he's a man of integrity. He's made a mistake. He's wrong about prosecuting Netanyahu."

"About receiving personal items, if you want to make it a crime to accept personal gifts, you have to have a specific number in the statute. Anybody who accepts gifts worth more than 10,000 shekels has to report them. That's the way it is in the United States. But to leave it up to the discretion of the prosecutor whether a certain number of bottles of champagne is too many, whether a certain number of cigars is too many – that gives the prosecutor too much discretion.

"Every time I go to see the prime minister, I give him a gift, one of my books. It's worthless, but it's still a gift. If you want to change the law and have a specific amount, that would be a good thing to do. But absent that, I don't think it's proper to use the criminal law to say 'It was too much.'"  

None of this is political support, but rather an expression of a legal opinion, and has nothing to do with his political opinions. "I was a Hillary Clinton supporter, I know Joe Biden. I'm not a supporter of Donald Trump's policies. But I believe in the Constitution, and I don't believe that the impeachment attempt against his was legitimate attempt to impeach him was legitimate, was constitutionally authorized. So I'm going to defend him in exactly the same way I helped defend Bill Clinton," Dershowitz says.   

Q: Are you still a Democrat?

"I'm still a Democrat. I'll remain a Democrat as long as I can have influence within the Democratic Party to marginalize the anti-Israel extreme Left. That's why I favored the nomination of Joe Biden over the only Jewish person to ever run seriously for president, Bernie Sanders, who I didn't support because of his attitudes toward Israel."

Q: What are Biden's positions on Israel?

"I'm satisfied that both Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are generally pro-Israel. You don't know what influence the hard Left will have on a Democratic president. Remember that this [congresswoman] from Queens, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, refused to even speak at Americans for Peace Now, a left-wing pro-peace organization, because she doesn't want to be perceived in any way as supporting Zionism. She's very hostile to Israel. Many on the American Left have reached out to her to try and get her to go to Israel, to meet with Israeli officials. She has adamantly refused.

"She is the young, new image of progressives and 'woke' people in the Democratic Party. My voice is needed to fight back against that, along with the voice of young people and others. We need to make sure that the Democratic Party retains its bipartisan support for Israel."

Q: Do you think the strong connection between Trump and Netanyahu weakened the pro-Israel voices in the Democratic Party?

"It did in some respects, but not in others. I think the real pro-Israel voices in the Democratic Party are still there. There have been some who say, 'Anything Trump is for, we're against.' The most take the view that we're for Israel, we don't support a particular government or oppose a particular government, we're just going to be supportive of Israel, but not of all of its policies."

"If Obama had recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, every Jew in the world would support it.  But because Trump did it, a significant number of Jews said no, it shouldn't have happened, or it was the wrong time.   

"The big issue that divided Democrats and Republicans was the [2015] Iran deal. Many, many Jewish Democrats opposed the Iran deal. I strongly opposed it; I wrote a book, The Case Against the Deal, and that ended my relationship with Obama. The year I wrote my book, Obama for the first time didn't invite me to the White House Hanukkah party."

'Violence isn't freedom of speech'

Q: Do you support anti-government protests, like the ones in Israel, which are about both Netanyahu's policies and his handling of the COVID crisis?

"We're seeing the same thing in the United States, and it will get worse. When the election is over, there will probably be street riots. No matter who loses, one side or the other will go to the streets and riot, and there will be violence and demonstrations. I favor protests. Protests are protected by free speech. But violence is not. We're seeing the same thing in the United States, a combination of protesting President Trump's policies toward COVID and protesting his general policies, including his nomination of a Supreme Court Justice [Amy Coney Barrett], and it will get worse."

"We live in a world in which people are more divided than ever. In America, we're more divided than we have been since the Civil War, and I think Israel is more divided than they have been in my memory. I've been to Israel 100 times since 1970. I've never seen that kind of division. I had a birthday party in Israel some years ago, I think it was when I was 70. I invited all my friends. There were people from the Right and Left who'd never met each other. Netanyahu was there, he wasn't prime minister at the time, Aharon Barak was there, he was the president of the Supreme Court. … Today, I probably could not have a birthday party to which I invited both Prime Minister Netanyahu and former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert."  

Q: Some claim that the leadership in both the US and Israel, is fueling the divide.

"I think both sides are fueling the divide. As a result of defending President Trump in front of the Senate, I've lost many of my friends on Martha's Vineyard. Who fueled that? It's both sides. I'll continue to advise prime ministers or presidents if they ask me for advice. That's the obligation of a lawyer and a public citizen.

Q: What is your opinion of Coney Barrett's appointment to the Supreme Court?

"She would not have been my choice. She is very anti-abortion, and the question is, will she allow her religion to interfere in any way with her judicial decisions. She has written about it herself, saying orthodox Catholic judges might have to recuse themselves in cases involving capital punishment and abortion. Senators will ask her questions about that.  

"The timing is very problematic, and once could argue hypocritical. When President Obama nominated Judge Merrick Garland eight months before the election, the Republicans wouldn't vote on his confirmation. But now, it's only a few weeks before the election, and fro the president to nominate somebody who will shift the balance of the court for the next 50 years, is problematic. It's constitutionally permissible, but it's politically and morally problematic."

Q: So it's kosher…

"But not glatt."

Q: Judge Coney Barrett could play a critical role given that Trump has not promised to honor the result of the election and the Supreme Court could decide the matter.

"If the whole thing is decided for Trump by a judge he just appointed there will be a major constitutional crisis. But I don't think that will happen, because right now the polls show that the result will be decisive and Biden will win. On the other hand, there's no way of knowing. Hillary Clinton led in the polls, too."

Q: What is your opinion of Trump's opposition to mail-in voting?

"It's a mistake. I think that we need to allow voting by mail, even if a small number might be fraudulent, the vast majority won't be, and it's important to take into account."

Q: Which method of appointing judges do you think is better, the Israeli or American one?

"The Israeli system is in danger, it's been challenged. I like the Israeli system generally, where highly professional people are picked for the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has really been an excellent institution.  I think that it's a big mistake to allow too much political involvement in the appointment of judges. The it should be a professional decision. I think the Israeli Supreme Court has proved its credibility. Justices like [Meir] Shamgar, and Barak, and [Dorit] Beinisch have been jewels in the Israeli system. I'm friends with them all. I miss president Shamgar a lot. I first met him when he was the [IDF] Advocate General.

"The Israeli system, like every legal system, has problems. There are selective prosecutions. I think the prosecution in the Netanyahu case is wrong, and I think it may be politically motivated. I'm critical of it. But that doesn't mean you criticize the whole concept. The Israeli legal system in general is quite good. The Supreme Court is superb. Do I agree with all of its opinions? Of course not. That doesn't mean I would criticize the entire idea.

"The Israeli public should support the Israeli legal system. It's very important that a legal system have credibility."

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"He asked: 'What, really?', and then we were both silent for a few moments.

"Listen, it's a big part of my life. In 1996 I started working as an aide to Netanyahu and director of the Public Affairs Department in the Prime Minister's Office. It's been almost 25 years since then, and I'm almost 50. Half of my life was spent in this circle."

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This week Erdan and his family traveled to New York, ahead of his new posting as Israel's ambassador to the UN, replacing Danny Danon. In another four months he will also replace Ron Dermer as the ambassador in Washington.

"On a personal level, it felt right to make a change. I was a minister in important offices, I legislated dozens of laws, I was on many committees, I'm proud of the many reforms and processes that I led. Now it's time to go on to something different, something new."

Q: As someone who for years has defended Netanyahu, maybe now it's also the right time to get further away?

"That's not a consideration. I defended the prime minister also during the tough years. As long as Netanyahu represents the positions of the national camp and the Likud, I will support him and won't work against him. It's not personal. Personal relationships can be good or bad, I don't let that influence my principled views.

"I'm not in the Knesset or government as my own representative. I represent the national camp. I have no right to take my ambitions or frustrations and act according to them."

Q: Yet soon Netanyahu's trial will begin, and in the background, the protests are growing.

"I'm confident that the prime minister himself would also prefer to do his job without indictments and a trial. Of course it's a disadvantage, but Netanyahu has many advantages despite this. He believes he's innocent, and in addition there is the choice the people made, which says he's the only person who can form a government. The people prefer him over a person with no abilities or experience, or one who holds leftist positions. In addition to the presumption of innocence and a clear rule of the law that allows him to continue to serve, there's no reason that should not happen.

"The only one allowed to determine guilt is the court. Not the police, not the prosecution, and not the attorney general. I don't disrespect them, but there have been many cases when indictments have been served and the court acquitted."

Q: Does the public still want Netanyahu, at the same level?

"Public opinion can change sometimes. There's no doubt that today, when the public is in financial distress and worried about income, naturally people want answers from the government. It's completely legitimate, and that's why the atmosphere today is unpleasant. Does anyone in the Israeli political system have a secret patent for this situation? Are other countries not having a second wave as well?

"I'm not disputing the fact that people have lost their jobs - all those who worked in the leisure sector were dealt a serious blow. They need to be first in line for the government's attention, because the uncertainty for them is highest."

Q: Do you agree with the prime minister and his supporters that the demonstrations are an attempt to trample democracy?

"In these protests there are a lot of people that I understand, and they need to be helped, because they are in distress, and there are also political figures who are using this as an opportunity. That's also legitimate. A political protest is legitimate. The uncertainty and loss of income spark protests. It doesn't happen only in Israel."

Q: As former Public Security Minister do you think the police treated the protesters in a measured way?

"The police have the most difficult and ungrateful job there is, because the policeman needs to make decisions in split seconds, and the decisions he makes will always cause anger for someone. In this case - either the protesters, or the administration who is being protested against. The right to protest is fundamental, and we need to safeguard it.

"However, the freedom to protest is not the freedom to endanger the public with infection and not the freedom to incite to violence. The police need to act wherever the law is broken and wherever rules are broken, without distinguishing who the protesters are and against what and whom they are protesting. At the end of the day, the police have an almost impossible mission, to enforce distancing between people in a crowd of hundreds and thousands. This is a mission that leads eventually to using force, which can deteriorate the situation further. I thought that during the pandemic the scope of the protests should be limited, so officers can make sure the rules of distancing are kept. That didn't happen because the prime minister and attorney general thought otherwise."

Q: Will you run to lead the Likud after Netanyahu?

"It's legitimate and obvious that I have ambitions to reach the top, but if I declare that a day will come and I'll run for prime minister, that's not what will get me there, only my achievements will. I'm building my public service career that way, so if I decide to run - and I don't have a final decision on this - I will have all the tools and the experience to know I am capable. Representing Israel in the international arena and working with the US administration are very significant when it comes to the experience one can get."

Q: There's talk of another round of elections.

"My personal estimation is that despite all the prophecies, the political system, at least the one of the Likud, will continue in the coming years as is, without change."

Erdan was offered to serve as UN ambassador a few times since he entered parliament in 2002. "Silvan Shalom offered me the job when he was Foreign Minister in 2005, but I was just a legislator for two years then, it was too early. Lieberman offered me the job in 2011 when he was Foreign Minister, but I was deep in reforms and environmental struggles as Minister of the Environment."

Q: Environment took precedence over the UN?

"Absolutely. The Ministry of Environment was my first [portfolio] in government, in 2009, and the portfolio I liked the most. There you fight for the whole public, for its health, and all the public is with you. If it's a campaign against building on the Palmachim beach or the law to prevent smoking in public spaces - there's no Left and Right, you fight for everyone, with no exception. The role of an ambassador is like that, too."

Q: What made you take the job this time?

"We were much more ready now, as a family. It's a family decision, at the end of the day, and my wife Shlomit had to be on board with us taking our four children to a completely new reality."

Q: What role would have kept you in the country?

"I don't know if there was one, and anyway, not the portfolios the Likud held. Education interested me, but when I met with the Prime Minister we didn't know if the Likud would have it. Except for Education, the Foreign and Defense portfolios interested me, of course, but the Likud doesn't have them.

"The prime minister called me in first to meet with him. Netanyahu knew that I've been deliberating for years about the UN job, and he also had a problem with the number of portfolios he had, of course. He told me: 'Tell me what you want. If you want to be a senior minister, you will. But if you seriously consider the UN, I'm willing to offer you something we haven't seen for 60 years, since the days of Abba Eban. Both the UN and Washington."

"I get things done. I wanted to know for sure that I would have an opportunity for significant work. The role of ambassador in Washington promises a lot of work, and I felt it was time to make my dreams in the international diplomacy arena come true."

Q: It's a dream?

"Absolutely. From childhood, I wished to fight for Israel in the world. As a boy, I dreamed of 'being in politics', but never thought I had a chance. The plan was to work as a lawyer, to make some money, and then try to get into politics."

Q: Was the dream politics or diplomacy?

"As a boy, I didn't dream to become environmental protection minister.  I dreamed of a heroic struggle for Israel in the international arena."

Erdan will live with his family in New York, in a flat used by all of Israel's ambassadors to the UN, since Chaim Herzog did so in the 1970s. When he arrives he will be tested for the coronavirus, and if the result is negative, he will be allowed to enter the office building used by the Mission to the UN and Israel's Consulate in New York.

"A few days after I arrive in New York I will present my credentials to the Secretary General of the UN, and from that moment I will begin my job in the UN," he says. "Unfortunately, it may happen on Zoom."

On January 20, after the elections in the US, Erdan will replace Ron Dermer as the Israeli ambassador in Washington. As of now, his appointment for the job is for one year only. "After one year, Benny Gantz is supposed to become prime minister, and he can decide if I continue or not, it's his right to put someone else there. Assuming he actually will be prime minister."

Q: Assuming? Meaning, there's a chance he won't be prime minister?

"My agreement with Netanyahu is that as long as he is prime minister, I will fill both roles, in the UN and Washington. I think and believe that Netanyahu will continue to serve as prime minister beyond next year."

Q: How will you combine both roles?

"With a lot of hard work. I'm used to doing a few jobs at once. In 2009 I was the Minister for Environmental Protection and the Minister in charge of coordinating between the Government and the Knesset. In 2013, the Minister of Communications and Minister of Home Front Defense, and in 2015, Minister of Public Security, Strategic Affairs and Public Diplomacy."

"There are other countries who appointed one ambassador for both roles, there's logic to it. Technically, the distance between New York and Washington is not great. Four hours drive, that's all. If I leave Manhattan at 6 a.m. I'll be in Washington by 10. On the way, I can work on my phone and computer. That's something Abba Eban could not do in the 1950s.

"There will be nights where I stay to sleep in Washington, and won't get back to my family in New York. That's another reason the decision had to be made at the family level. Shlomit is on board with this, and without her it would not be possible."

Q: What will be the main issues you focus on?

"I presume the pandemic will continue to top the list, on both fronts, but simultaneously there are issues with existential repercussions for Israel.

"The Iran issue is nearing a critical point. The weapons embargo on Iran, as part of the deal they signed with Obama, is about to end on October 18. If that happens, Iran will be able to purchase advanced planes and submarines. The US is trying to extend the embargo, but it's hitting a wall in the Security Council. The Russians are considering vetoing the extension, so there may be some very significant disagreements up ahead.

"For me, as the UN ambassador of a country threatened by Iran, I will have a lot of important work to explain to the world the need to impose sanctions, to stop the strengthening of Iran and its constant race towards a nuclear weapon."

Q: Did you get instructions from the prime minister to advance sovereignty in Judea and Samaria?

"Not yet, but the prime minister is committed to this issue. The pandemic and US elections have delayed the process, but not removed it from the agenda. I have been an enthusiastic supporter of applying sovereignty for many years now. I agreed with the prime minister that things need to be done in coordination and agreement with the US"

Q: How does that sit with your declared objection to a Palestinian state?

"I have always objected to a Palestinian state, in the conventional meaning of a state, and I still object. The Trump plan does not create such a state. It actually accepts all our demands and only determines that afterward we'll discuss the type of Palestinian entity that will exist.

"Prime Minister Netanyahu was right to support the "deal of the century" since first of all the Palestinians must give up the Right of Return, end the incitement, disarm Hamas and other steps, which only after those will we be able to argue if it's autonomy, a state-minus and so on.

"When you soberly evaluate the plan and the recalcitrant attitude of the Palestinians, with cooperation from some of the Israeli Arabs, it's obvious that the only part that will probably be implemented is the application of sovereignty, which we've dreamt of for years. The parts that have to do with the Palestinians are not expected to happen. Unless they turn into the Swiss."

Q: What's your model for being an ambassador?

"I can't say I have a formula, and it would be arrogant on my part to draw up a model before I began the job. But I hold the view that is relevant to all my political life: to be on the offense and not the defense. To be statesmanlike, to respectfully represent the country and the government, to avoid being on the defense. I always prefer to be on the offense.

"That was also my credo as Minister of Strategic Affairs. All the boycotts against Israel and the BDS activity are hypocrisy and lies. We published reports that reveal terrorist organizations behind the alleged civilian BDS activity, and statements of BDS leaders that revealed classic anti-Semitism. When AirBNB wanted to boycott Judea and Samaria, we worked with Jewish and pro-Israel organizations and US governors, who announced they would boycott the company, and it retracted that bizarre decision. Those are just a few examples.

"In this spirit I intend to push an ongoing campaign in the UN, whose objective is to bring about the dismantling of UNRWA. This is one of the major obstacles to calming the region, which is abusing its role and is a disaster for peace. I don't oppose helping Palestinian refugees. The treatment should be similar to that of all the refugees around the world: a promise they are absorbed appropriately in the countries they live in. President Trump stopped funding to UNRWA, and justifiably so."

Q: The Jewish vote in the US is mostly Democratic, and like the Democratic party, is critical of Israel.

"Only small parts of the Democratic party are critical of Israel. Its mainstream supports Israel, and just recently they again approved military aid to Israel, at a difficult time. During the recent discussions on the party's platform some radical initiatives came up, like cutting aid to Israel if annexation happens, and they were all voted down by large majorities.

"I will know how to work with the same efficacy and dedication with both parties. With the Democrats I have a deep and significant shared concern - protecting the environment."

Q: What did you achieve in your five-year term as Minister of Public Security?

"I am especially proud of the police victory over the lone wolf terrorists. I started the job in May 2015, and in September, on the eve of the Jewish New Year, the first attack occurred, followed by hundreds of attacks. I'm happy that people have managed to forget a very violent year of knife attacks, rammings, and shootings.

"The Ministry of Public Security and the police do not get the appreciation they deserve, because they don't have the status of the Defense Ministry, who fights the enemy. They work in law enforcement of the state's citizens and are in constant friction with them, but in recent years they have been the one standing on the front lines of the war on terror. We lost many policemen and women, more than IDF soldiers.

"In this case as well, my approach was offense, not defense. We eased the restrictions on opening fire to deal with attackers, we outlawed the Murabitun and Murabitat fundamentalist organizations, which operate under the guise of Muslim study groups, and for years have engaged in harassing and intimidating Jewish visitors to the Temple Mount and disturbing the peace on the site, the Jerusalem district got massive reinforcement, we set minimum punishment requirements against those throwing stones and Molotov cocktails, we developed tools to fight incitement on the web and identify profiles of inciters and incited.

"Today Jerusalem is one of the safest places in the Western world. The whole city is networked with advanced cameras for facial identity and smart technologies. The speed of reaction is at 15-20 seconds to each terror attack attempt. We raised wages for police, we've opened new police stations. When I started the job there were only three police stations in Arab towns, now there are 11."

Q: And yet, a year ago the leaders of the Arab society protested against the government and police, citing the rise in crime and murders. They declared a complete lack of faith in Israel Police and said the police treat the Arab public as enemies.

"Who protested and came out with these declarations? Ayman Odeh, who participated in solidarity protests with Hamas? Only in Israel can the media take a man like Odeh, who is an enemy of the state, who identifies with the worst of our enemies who want to destroy us, and give him such a large and broad platform.

"To the issue: 70 years of neglect, which means among other things a huge lack of governance of the state, cannot be fixed in a few years. Furthermore, there's nothing to do, we're talking about cultural norms of the Arab society. Instead of blaming us, let the Arab leadership take responsibility and start delegitimizing murders based on primitive norms towards women. Otherwise it won't change. 60-70 percent of murders, and especially murders of women, take place in the Arab sector.

"So of course, as a minister, I have to ask myself difficult questions, and of course the government has responsibility. But the Arab leadership also has to ask itself tough questions and do something on its part. They shouldn't suffice with saying a thousand times 'gather the weapons.' When they will report - and they know where the illegal weapons are - that will be a true change and taking of responsibility.

"In order to change norms, there is a need for leadership that has to start denouncing violence against women and the use of live ammunition, and begin to cooperate, which is a term they hate, but as citizens of the state they must cooperate. It's easy to shirk their responsibility by pointing a finger at the Minister of Public Security.

"In this case as well most of the citizens, even in the Arab society, know the truth. Including that, sadly, the Arab society is a very violent society. Not all of it, but the norms are different. The speed with which they pull guns out during a fight is different."

Q: Should the responsibilities of the Minister of Public Security be extended?

"Definitely. For years there have been those who say the minister might get involved in investigations. But investigations of elected officials are just a small part of police work. From a total of 33,000 policemen, how many deal with investigations of politicians? 100-200 at the most.

"That's why it's difficult to force work arrangements on 99% of the police. A minister can not make the police act more on the issue of gender violence, for example.

"I had a constant feud with the police, when I asked to see the breakdown of wiretaps. I asked to see how many of them are for tracking violent men and how many after politicians, without getting into this case or that case. Just to understand how resources are used and what the priorities are. It wasn't given to me. Only the Chief of Police has the authority, no one above him, not even an auditing body. The most that can happen is the State Comptroller writing a report that has no teeth.

"I told Ayelet Shaked, who was Justice Minister, and State Prosecutor Shai Nitzan, to take this out of the police's hands. Take the few investigators dealing with it, and create in the Justice Ministry a unit for investigating elected officials, or investigating public corruption. Just like there's a unit to investigate policemen, which is also part of the Justice Ministry. Leave the police with keeping citizens safe and fighting crime. There's enough work. But it never happened."

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Q: As the one who was between a rock and a hard place, did you not ask Netanyahu to restrain his critique of the police? It blurred the achievements of the police. Your achievements as minister.

"I am a minister in a government led by Netanyahu, who feels he has harsh claims against the police concerning the investigations of him. It's his right to express them. He never pointed his critique against all of Israel Police, and also gave me backing for additional budgets and authorities for police, inaugurated new police stations in Arab towns and thanked the police on many occasions."

Q: In the latest primaries in the Likud, as opposed to the ones before it, you didn't finish in first place on the list.

"I was in the top three. Before I left for the US, I held ten gatherings to say goodbye to Likud activists. Unfortunately, they were very small, due to the Health Ministry guidelines. If it wasn't for the pandemic, I would have held at least another 15 events, with many more participants, and said goodbye personally to thousands of people I care about. I wanted to look each and every one of them in the eyes, and make it clear that while I'm going out on my life mission, they should have no doubt: I'll be back."

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Unlike many of their peers in retirement, actors Dov Glickman and Sasson Gabai time isn't spent solely pursuing hobbies or playing with their grandchildren. The two are enjoying the type of professional boom actors half their age can only dream about, and are starring in hit shows and plays in Israel and the US.

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"I want to enjoy what's left," says Gabai, 72. "I want to do more and more, as much as I can. I have absolutely no intention of slowing down, on the contrary, I'm speeding up."

"I feel I'm getting younger by the day," adds Glickman, 70. "Scientifically, a person is considered old when he begins driving below the speed limit. Seriously, I checked it out with my niece, who researches aging. Well, I'm not there yet. Professionally, this is the best period in my entire acting career. Without a doubt. I'm working on excellent materials, with great partners and great writers and directors."

"I've also reached a kind of peak in recent years," Gabai says. "I was exactly 70 when I was invited to perform on Broadway in The Band's Visit. I'm only now beginning to realize what a major and unique professional opportunity that is. Performing at 70 in the Mecca of theater, that's a peak."

This is a conversation between two good friends, who compliment each other profusely, listen carefully, understand, encourage, and enjoy each other's company.

Glickman says they are "kindred spirits, like brothers."

Gabai agrees. "Over the years our relationship has steadily become closer. A 'brother relationship' is a good description in our case. But I'd rather not talk about it too much, since it's a precious thing for me and I just want it to grow deeper."

In late March, Gabai returned to Israel after a US tour of The Band's Visit was cut short due to the coronavirus crisis.

"First I waited for three weeks in New York, because it wasn't yet clear what was going to happen. The city was no longer New York as we know it. It changed completely, only Central Park stayed more or less the same. Every day I went for at least a two-hour walk in the park with Dafna, my wife."

Q: Did you self-quarantine after you returned to Israel?

"Yes, we self-quarantined for two weeks in our house in Ramat Aviv. We felt a combination of jet lag and shock. I went from very intensive work to being cooped up at home. I wasn't thinking in terms of good or bad, but I needed time to adapt.

"The uncertainty is unpleasant, but pretty soon I got busy with future projects, reading screenplays, putting things in order. All I was required to do was to stay at home, a home that I like. As long as you're not sick, it's a very modest requirement."

"For us those corona days were so good," adds Glickman, whose partner for the last decade is Shlomzion Kenan, 50, with whom he shares a home in the center of Tel Aviv.

"I've been hearing about couples who've gone crazy. We felt like nothing was missing in our life. It was a quiet time, enjoying our pets, cooking, resting, talking, watching British drama series, walking our dog Mumus. Until the Zehu Ze reunion, when I became an essential worker," he says of the iconic Israeli TV satire show, which ran for 21 seasons prior to the reunion, which has earned rave reviews.

Gabai and Glickman – among the veteran performers in the Israeli cultural field – began working together only five years ago, during the second season of the television series Shtisel.

They played two brothers, Shulem (Glickman) and Nuhem (Gabai). Back in the day, Gabai participated in a number of Zehu Ze episodes.

These days they're appearing side by side again, in the second season of Stockholm, a Kan 11 ensemble cast dramedy starring some of Israel's iconic actors.

They play a pair of close friends – Professor Amos Barazani (Gabai) and Yehuda Harlap (Glickman) who become embroiled in the mystery surrounding the death of their good friend Professor Avishai Sar-Shalom (played be Zehu Ze co-star Gidi Gov).

The second season opens with Sar-Shalom's funeral, when a new character appears (played by Shlomo Bar-Aba, another Zehu Ze alumni), who claims to be a close friend of the deceased, confusing everyone else.

At 69, Bar-Aba is one of the youngest cast members, The series also starts Tiki Dayan, 71, Liora Rivlin, 75, and Shoshik Shani, 85 – three iconic Israeli actresses in their own right.

"The series was put in the hands of actors hungry for life and career success, who have absolutely no interest in retirement," laughs Gabai. "We love our profession, have passionate discussions about our work, argue over nuances as if we're just starting out. It's important for all of us even more than it was 30 years ago. We all have a strong work ethic and loyalty to the project, to the point that it becomes the most important thing in our lives."

Q: Is that also because you fear it will end?

"You know what? I don't even want to think about that question. Actors are always afraid of rejection, of being unwanted. An actor always fears what will happen to him after the peak. Ensuring your continued success and protecting your place requires effort and emotional strength. I'm able to repress those thoughts through hard work, and I have no reason to complain. I'm just thankful for what I have."

Glickman: "I think not knowing is what makes acting the best profession in the world. It's an adventure, and it excites me. Each project is a pregnancy, and you never know what will happen to it after it's born. There's no ultrasound scan to let you know what's going on."

Q: After decades in show business, including periods of unemployment, what do you think brought on the change in recent years?

"The part of Shulem in Shtisel," Gabai is quick to answer for Glickman. "A huge role that gave Doval'e's career a major boost. I would look at him in Shtisel and be amazed. Such precise, effortless reactions. Making an effort, pushing and exerting yourself – that isn't good for an actor."

Glickman: "That's true, it's a development of the past seven years, since Shtisel's first season. Shulem was the best part I ever played, and it came at the exact moment when I was ready to play it," he says of the role for which he won two Israeli Television Academy awards for his part in the show, in 2013 and 2015.

"There's a certain age when you learn to let go as an actor, and you gain a lot by that. The passion is the same, the fire is the same, but you no longer feel you have to prove yourself as much. 20 or 30 years ago I wouldn't have been able to do that."

Keeping busy

In addition to Stockholm and Shtisel, in recent years Glickman has played in the series The Conductor,  the films Big Bad Wolves, Driver, and Laces (for which he won the 2018 Ophir Award for Best Supporting Actor), and the plays Glengarry Glen Ross, at the Haifa Theater and Angina Pectoris at the Tzavta Theater.

Gabai has been equally busy. He played in the series Virgins and in the films The Band's Visit (for which he won the 2007 Ophir Award for Best Actor), Hunting Elephants, Kidon, The Kind Words, The Other Story, The Angel, and Gett: The Trial of Viviane Amsalem, for which he won the 2014 Ophir Award for Best Supporting Actor.

At Beit Lessin Theater, his professional home for the past 25 years, he appeared recently in the plays The Father and Polishuk, produced following a critically acclaimed TV show in which he also starred.

He is married to the author and scriptwriter Dafna Halaf-Gabai, with whom he has two children – Adam, 22, a novice actor, and Uri, 20, a soldier serving as a musical arranger in army ensembles. Adam is now living in Chicago and has already played in the HBO series Our Boys, as well as in The Band's Visit, alongside his father.

Gabai has been playing in The Band's Visit on Broadway since June 2018. Shortly after he joined, the musical won 10 Tony awards, including for Best Musical.

"I've performed the part over 500 times: 320 on Broadway, in the course of ten months, and another 200 on the play's US and Canada tour. We started planning our West Coast tour when the curtain came down. I really hope we can soon go on.

"Broadway is an incredible experience. The power, the size, the professionalism, the precision, and also the warmest audience. To the point that fans come up to you in the street, and above all wait for you outside the theater when the play is over. Each time the play was staged there were dozens of people waiting outside behind metal barriers, and I would go among them hand out autographs. I don't recall ever being asked for an autograph in Israel."

His son, Adam, joined the cast when the play embarked on its US tour.

"We have one scene together, so our contact on the stage is limited," says the proud father. "That gives me the greatest pleasure – standing behind the scenes and watching him. This is his first professional play, and he's wonderful. His presence made everything easier for me, and Dafna was also with us most of the time, coming back to Israel once in a while to be with Uri.

"For now Adam is in the States, and we'll have to see what happens with the play. In any case he'll audition for parts in the US and in Israel and see what's best for him."

Q: How was the US tour, compared to performing on Broadway?

"On Broadway, we performed eight times a week. Twice a week with two performances a day, four with one, and one day of rest. It's hard work, just the way I like it. Moving every few weeks to a new city and a new apartment becomes difficult at some point. You get up at night to go to the bathroom and you get lost in the kitchen. It's tiring physically and mentally. But I'd do it all again, and I'll be happy to keep it up until further notice."

 Q: Isn't it better to move to a new apartment every couple of weeks than to sleep each night in a van in Israel?

"It's different, but I never complained of those trips in Israel. I never said I was sick of it, even if it was a bit hard. I don't mind traveling and I definitely don't mind working hard. That makes me laugh. Actors dream of their play became a hit, and then when it's a hit, you complain about having to travel and work hard? I'll never understand that.

"Another thing is that I never asked for a reduction in the number of weekly performances. My approach is that if you have a play and it's running, take it. All of it. Don't ask questions, don't ask for understudies and breaks, because it will be over, and you don't know what will happen next.

"We're great at complaining. In fact, that's part of our charm. An Israeli actor gets in the van and says, 'Nu, here we go again.' I admit it's crowded and claustrophobic. You're on the road for hours, and then you have to get up on the stage and be fresh and focused.

"In the US there weren't any trips like that. In New York I lived in a hotel near Broadway, and in other places too I could usually walk to the theater. By the way, from the minute I got to New York I didn't hear anybody complaining, either onstage or behind the scenes.

"I guess because the competition is so tough, when you have work you appreciate it, you're elated. You're glad to do it, even if it's eight performances a week. There are actors who do that for years. I don't know if I could be happy working like that, but they don't complain."

Glickman's international experience is more modest.

Three years ago he played in the film Murer: Anatomy of a Trial, filmed in Luxemburg. The film is based on the true story of an Austrian politician tried for war crimes as the commander of the Vilna Ghetto.

"I felt it gave me a sense of life abroad," says Glickman. In 2015 he participated in the filming of Joseph Cedar's Norman in New York. For the past three years, he has been on the cast of the Stuttgart State Theater, participating in the play Birds of a Kind by Lebanese playwright Wajdi Mouawad, alongside Evgenia Dodina and Itay Tiran.

Q: You play the role in German?

"Yes, the entire play is in German, though I don't really know the language. It was a dream: two-and-a-half months of pleasant rehearsals, Shlomzion joined me and we received an amazing apartment in Stuttgart. I still perform in the show, the audience loves it – we got 15 minutes of applause. But there are two or three performances a month. I come for two days and go back to Israel, and that isn't fun. Not the kind of experience I'm looking for.

"But these performances did make me realize that what I like best is traveling the world as part of my job. I haven't had the chance to work so intensively and powerfully as Sasson has. That sounds so exciting and wonderful, I envy him."

Gabai: "I envy myself for my time on Broadway and in the States. Hopefully, I'll soon get back to doing that."

Glickman: "I'm trying to convince Noa Yedlin to write a third season for Stockholm that will be filmed abroad. What do you say? In Sweden for example. What could be more fitting than for those folks to get into trouble, end up there and justify the title of the series? I also suggested to the writers of Shtisel that Shulem should get up one morning, discover that his son has gone missing, and start searching for him around the world."

Gabai: "You can come visit Nuhem in Belgium."

Glickman: "Exactly. That's what I told them."

Gabai: "Too bad we filmed Nuhem's Belgium apartment on Herzl Street in Tel Aviv."

Glickman: "Oh, yeah. I repressed that. Right, we filmed near Allenby. Never mind, I'll find a solution, wait and see."

'Pathetic, in the best sense of the word'

Last December Gabai returned to Israel for two weeks to film the new season of Stockholm.

"The greatness of Stockholm is that the elderly are in the center rather than being cast as a weak group," laughs Gabai while Glickman tries to calm down. "They might be somewhat pathetic, and they're definitely petty, obsessive, anxious, but they're still active, ambitious, full of dreams, desires, drives and urges, with a tendency for intrigue and complications. They talk about sex, they're interested in sexuality, and that's beautiful. Yes, folks. There is sex after 70."

Glickman: "Is it necessary to explain that this topic is always a part of our lives? One of the proofs is that very old Alzheimer's patients lose all their sexual inhibitions and break all the rules."

Gabai: "Some men lose their inhibitions and break all the rules without Alzheimer's."

Glickman: "You know I read recently that there's this trend of people who are interested in life without sex. By choice."

Gabai: "I can't understand that. What's the idea? If we're here, isn't it a shame to let it all go to waste? Young and old people alike have drives. You look at an old person and you forget that inside he's still a boy, a youth, a young man."

Glickman: "Sasson, I think men are more childish than women."

Gabai: "Definitely. We're infantile. Women are better than us in every respect."

Q: You talk a lot about your wives.

"Out of fear!" Yells Glickman. "It's all out of fear!"

"Of course, we better talk about them," Gabai joins in. "The truth is, Dafna and I have just gone through a very intense stage lasting almost two years, which strengthened our relationship. We gave a great deal to each other, and it was good. Dafna gave me a feeling of home, of stability. I would come back from performances and she'd wait for me, like after performances in Israel. We talk, drink and eat together. She's with me."

Q: Are you concerned about how the crisis will affect the cultural scene?

Glickman: "I'm very concerned, and it will be horrible. The world can't live without culture. There's no life without music, television, movies, plays. What are we sitting at home for? First of all to protect our health, but also to protect our basic values. So we can go back to our lives, our pleasures, going out, studying, cultivating our interests. I don't have any operational advice, that isn't my job. I just want people to get their freedom back.

"Basic values are being crushed, and it isn't just because of the corona crisis. Before the crisis our leadership also tried to convince us that survival is of supreme value. This was not just politically motivated. First they tell us how strong and superior and pioneering we are, then they tell us we're in survival mode that they have to protect us because we're in constant and terrible danger. They're pulling the wool over our eyes.

"Of course, security is important, but they're trying to blind us to anything other than a struggle for survival. As if an Israeli patriot is only someone who survives and puts his trust in the leader. Is a person who doesn't feel he's in a struggle for survival a hater of Israel? No, not at all."

Gabai: "The leadership should manage the business of leading properly, and not lecture us as to the meaning of life. Make sure our lives are healthy, fair, and functional, and we'll find their meaning on our own. In the field of culture, a great many people have suffered.

"The government should take this into consideration. The cultural field employs hundreds of thousands of people, most of them self-employed. It isn't true to say there is no way to support culture. There are reservoirs, emergency funds of some kind or other. The government should compensate our field, which has always been neglected and struggling until the danger is behind us."

The post For the 'Shtissel Brothers,' life begins at 70 appeared first on www.israelhayom.com.

She speaks with the same level of determination in front of hundreds of activists at the party conference in central Israel as she does in front of 20 elderly men and one young woman at a community center in a small town in the south. And when one of the men, who seems to be the oldest, tells her at the end of the event, "I'm not convinced," she takes the time to listen, always focused, and answers him, succinctly.

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Since December 2018, Ayelet Shaked has managed to form the New Right and quit Habayit Hayehudi together with Naftali Bennett; languish with her party outside parliament after the April 2019 elections; get fired from her position as justice minister; lead Yamina – a faction comprising the New Right, National Union, and Habayit Hayehudi parties – in the second elections of 2019, held in September; get just seven seats, and be pushed down to third place in the Yamina list for the 2020 elections.

While her male colleagues – Bennett, Habayit Hayehudi leader Rafi Peretz, and National Union head Bezalel Smotrich – all got senior portfolios like Defense, Education, and Transportation, she was left outside the government. She is now in charge of revving the voters, who are tired and apathetic to any political message or promise.

"This was a tough year," she admits. "A tough and exhausting election year. For a Likud member of parliament, elections are not a big deal, especially if you don't need to go through a primary. For party leaders, and especially small party leaders fighting for every vote, elections are a whole different story."

"I can feel the fatigue on the ground. Everyone is tired. The messages repeat themselves, there's no bandwidth, no interest. People don't have the patience, I get it. For most of them, this is the fourth consecutive election, if you include the municipal elections, too.

"But this fatigue is really dangerous. These elections are critical for the right, for the national religious, for the settlements and the whole country. I have no choice but to work very hard because we need to be an influential factor in the decisions that will be taken, whether it's a right-wing government or a left-wing government, sovereignty in Judea and Samaria or negotiating with the Palestinians."

Q: Don't you feel that you've become less powerful, going from being the justice minister to someone who didn't even pass the electoral threshold almost overnight?

"Obviously, as justice minister, my position was stronger. But that's political life, and I don't waste time and energy on complaining and dealing with the past. I know how to land quickly on my feet, look ahead and focus on the target."

Q: Meanwhile, Bennett has been named the defense minister.

"The prime minister offered us two options: Either get two portfolios – with the choice being between Diaspora Affairs, Agriculture, or Social Affairs – or one portfolio for Naftali, Defense. Naftali called me, we discussed it, and I thought the right move was for him to take Defense. First and foremost, for the country, which hadn't had a Defense Minister for a year and a half, and also because there is no one who is more deserving of that role than Naftali.

"Our agreement is that we get portfolios equal in their importance, but this time I decided to pass so that he could get Defense. Next time I won't compromise on getting two equal portfolios. That's it, and for now, I'm fine with not being a minister."

Q: After what you went through last year, is your relationship with Bennett as strong as before?

"Of course. We are full partners in this journey. In political life there are many difficult situations and tests, but when there is real trust you can get over the crises and defuse the landmines. Naftali and I are not friends outside work, and our families don't spend time together. But in a work environment, we know how to work very well together."

Q: Weren't you angry with him after the New Right's failure in April's election?

"We decided on the New Right move together. Yes, he pushed for it, but we did it together. There's no reason to discuss it anymore. I've no intention to keep digging up the past. I'm just not like that. How will that help me? The results spoke for themselves, and that's why we reached the conclusion that it's best to merge, all of the national-religious [parties], with its full range, and also bring ideological, secular right–wing people such as myself."

Q: The latest statements made by Rabbi Rafi Peretz on the LGBTQ community hurt you, especially with liberal secular voters.

"I sincerely hope they didn't. I say to all New Right supporters: You have Naftali, you have me, you have Matan Kahana, Idit Silman, Sarah Beck and Shirly Pinto. We are all very liberal and welcoming. Rafi had a few very unfortunate statements that should not have been said. I, of course, oppose the things he said and don't support them in any manner. I've already said that if it were my children who told me they were gay, I would accept, honor, and love them, with no doubt whatsoever. It goes without saying. But this man is so much more than a few unnecessary statements. He is an IAF pilot, an educator of generations, a man who after he was thrown out of Gush Katif [in the 2005 disengagement from Gaza] founded a new community in the Halutza dunes."

Q: And that's supposed to erase his offensive opinions against LGBTQ people and their families?

"I'm not saying that. But one mustn't erase the whole person, and furthermore, one must look at the whole list. I understand there's a liberal audience who struggles with these statements. But there is no party where 100% of the candidates are completely acceptable to this or that voter.

"It's time to stop being finicky only with us. It's only with us that we always have to be a perfect fit. No one demonizes candidates of other parties as they do ours."

Q: That's not true, look what just happened with Yoaz Hendel from Blue and White.

"I have a feeling that if Smotrich had said things like that, he would have been butchered [politically]."

Q: In the earlier round, when you led Yamina, you got seven seats. That's what the polls are giving you now for the upcoming elections.

"We thought we'd get more than seven, but under the circumstances that wasn't so bad. Not great, but not bad. The political system is tough, and then, just like today, Netanyahu fought us. He kept saying on every stage: 'Don't vote for Yamina, vote for the Likud.' It's pathological, it's a routine that repeats itself every election."

"This time as well we're in a very difficult and aggressive election. The only one who is hurting the right-wing bloc is the Likud. Instead of speaking to right-wing voters, encouraging and mobilizing them to come out and vote, to get them motivated, to tell them about all their achievements, they keep talking about us, with this strange obsession. I don't understand how this is supposed to help in forming a right-wing government.

"The voter turnout in the Right and national-religious sectors fell in the past election. It's difficult to motivate people. So, how do these internal wars inside the national-religious sector help?"

Q: Maybe it's directed more at you and Bennett, and not at Yamina or the national-religious public?

"I don't know who it's directed at and I don't want to analyze it, certainly not in the media. I'm looking at the facts, and those are the facts. In every election, the Likud chooses to attack us. The Likud likes it when the national-religious [parites] are small, weak, pathetic, with only the Science and Space portfolio. They don't want us with Justice or Defense. That's less convenient. Why? Because we challenge them.

"In every election, the Likud tries to squash us. They don't want someone to their right who is ideologically strong, who challenges them. We're the only ones who will block a Palestinian state. In Donald Trump's 'deal of the century' there is a great opportunity, with implementing sovereignty in Judea and Samaria as a first step, after which no Palestinian state can be founded. If the first step is negotiating with Palestinians, that would pose a grave danger."

Q: Likud Minister Yariv Levin recently said that Yamina is a mirage. That by founding the New Right and not merging with the far-right Otzma Yehudit party you endanger the right-wing bloc, and that after the previous elections you were talking with Blue and White.

"I suggest that the Likud, if they want to succeed in the upcoming elections and not harm the right-wing, that they should be the ones to convince Otzma Yehudit to drop out, and not attack Yamina. And if it's difficult for the Likud to deal with us not merging with Otzma Yehudit, they can merge with them themselves. Why doesn't the Likud put [Otzma Yehudit leader Itamar] Ben Gvir on their own list? Maybe he would fit. And if not the Likud, then Shas, or United Torah Judaism. There's no need to force everything on us.

"The accusations of losing votes can be directed at the Likud and Netanyahu. They knew this was going to happen. The one who is currently hurting the right-wing bloc is Netanyahu and the Likud, and they're taking aim at us."

Q: If this is how the Likud always treats Yamina and the national-religious parties, why are you part of the right-wing bloc?

"Because we are ideologically right-wing, and we want to implement our policies. That is why Naftali and I entered politics, even though we had many other options for making a lot of money and living a good life outside of politics.

"A right-wing government is the best constellation for us to influence ideologically. Netanyahu is the person leading the largest right-wing party today. He leads the Likud. We are loyal to our ideology and are trying to put aside everything that isn't ideology and insist on thinking rationally, not emotionally.

Q: Bennett announced you would not join a Gantz government, yet you still held talks with Blue and White and they offered you the Defense and Justice portfolios.

"Blue and White offered us Defense and Justice, but we did not negotiate with them over entering a Gantz government. I met with Gantz a few times, and in every meeting, I tried to convince him to join a unity government. I told him he's making a mistake on a personal level because he could have been prime minister in six months' time.

"It's also a big mistake on the national level. Another election is not good for the country. I told him that we will guarantee that Netanyahu adheres to the rotation agreement. I also tried hard to convince [Yisrael Beytenu leader Avigdor] Lieberman to join the right-wing government. I was scared of dragging the country through another election, yet here we are for the third time. Who would have believed it? I didn't."

Q: Why are you ruling out Blue and White? It's not a left-wing party, it has right-wingers in it.

"It only has a few people that you can call rightists. Blue and White is a left-wing party who not say that's what they are. Gantz is left-wing. Many of the party members are left-wing. Why be ashamed of that? It's beyond me. But if Gantz can't say it, left-wing voters shouldn't be surprised that 'left' has become a derogatory term. What's wrong with you? Stand by your beliefs. I stand by mine, I'm proud of them, I'm fine with them. I don't stutter when I declare I'm right-wing."

Q: If a unity government is formed, will you be part of it?

"I prefer to be part of a right-wing government with the ultra-Orthodox. Definitely. And I think it is completely possible and realistic that a right-wing government with the ultra-Orthodox will be formed after these elections. But if the option is a unity government of the right-wing bloc together with Blue and White, instead of going to elections again, of course, a unity government is preferable. In a government with the right-wing bloc and Blue and White we will have less influence because we're not necessary, and what worries me most, in this case, is the possibility that negotiations will be held with the Palestinians."

Q: And a government led by Netanyahu, this time after his trial begins?

"Netanyahu is the leader of the largest right-wing party. The Likud chose him despite his indictments, and now we'll see what the voters have to say. If the voters choose him despite his indictments, and Netanyahu manages to form a coalition, he will be the prime minister and we hope to be a significant part of it. The law allows this."

Q: What ministry are you hoping to be appointed to if you are in the government?

"I would very much like to continue what I began in the Justice Ministry. It's not the only option for me, but it's a very interesting and diverse portfolio, and I still have a lot to do as justice minister."

Q: Such as?

"Such as passing the Basic Law: Legislation that would include the override clause [the passage of which would allow the Knesset to re-enact laws that have been struck down as unconstitutional by the High Court of Justice], with a majority of 61 members of Knesset. To hold public hearings in the Knesset Constitution, Law and Justice Committee for judges who are candidates for the Supreme Court, so that the public can get to know them and understand their legal positions.

"I want to define and limit, in rules or legislation, the authority of the attorney general. In addition, I want to open up the State Attorney's Office to jurists who are not part of it."

Q: Many of your achievements as justice minister had to do with the Judicial Nominations Committee.

"During my tenure, 334 excellent and professional judges were appointed. We did a lot of serious work on that committee. Those judges should not be discredited, and there is no contradicting the fact that as justice minister I advanced the agenda on which I was elected. I did not try to hide for one minute that my agenda was creating diversity among judges, especially by appointing conservative judges.

"But the diversity did not end with that. When I started out, I found there was not even one judge from the Ethiopian community. That's unreasonable. Together with all the committee members we found candidates and appointed two excellent judges. We also appointed ultra-Orthodox judges and a female Druze judge. Until then there were only male Druze judges."

While visiting the town of Neta in the Lachish region, Shaked says she "first of all trusts female voters. The women in the national-religious sector are lionesses. They're activists, educated, perseverant, strong, powerful, super serious. They raise children, they have a career. That's where you find so much strength and wisdom.

"I need us to get 9–10 seats, because the women on our list are amazing. We have to get them in, we simply must. People like to portray us as unenlightened, but we're the only party where women are half of the top 10 on the list."

Q: And they're all, except you, in slots 7 to 10. When the polls aren't giving you more than seven seats.

"According to the polls we're between 7–8 seats, and there were polls where we got 10. That's the goal, and we're working very hard to get there. It's not a far-flung dream.

"We represent women from all over the spectrum – Torah abiding religious women, liberal religious women, secular women – and we all work together. They're fantastic, all of them. Orit [Strook]'s agenda is the Land of Israel, and when I was justice minister, she was my informal advisor on settlements."

Q: In one of your campaign videos, you called on women to vote for you, "for your daughter, for your granddaughter, so that they will also be able to raise their heads and know that they can do anything." Women face no obstacles in Israel? For example, serving in combat units? Getting paid as much as men? Being excluded from the public sphere?

"Women can do anything and are capable of everything, there is no question about it, and I completely believe this. Of course, there is work to be done to advance equality, and it's complex, and in Israel, it requires study and analysis.

"In the private sector there's built-in pay discrimination, but women are also demanding less. In the IDF only eight percent of jobs are blocked off to women, and that's okay. The main purpose of the army is to win wars, and the army decided professionally what works and what doesn't when it comes to integrating women.

"Studying separately in academia is not an obstacle nor discrimination, quite the opposite. When Bennett was Education Minister and I was justice minister we pushed for that with all our power. I fought the legal system and he fought against the Council for Higher Education and the Planning and Budgeting Committee, responsible for funding higher education in Israel, because we knew that without that, many groups in the ultra-Orthodox sector that go to work would not come to study.

"I don't feel that I met obstacles as a woman. On the contrary, I feel that the fact I am a woman is simply an advantage."

Q: There were attempts to block you in your own party. It is said that Peretz didn't agree for you to be pictured next to him in campaign billboards, and even disapproved of your name on them. In closed conversations, he has opposed your return to the faction.

"The fact is that I was first in the list for the last elections. And another fact is that today I am number three in the Yamina list, which was formed exactly how I wanted it to. That's all."

The post 'It's been a tough year, but I still have a lot to do' appeared first on www.israelhayom.com.

And that is how Israel came back to hold one of its own records: Four women serving simultaneously as ministers, two of them appointed ministers in the early days of the 34th government in May 2015: Culture and Sports Minister Miri Regev, and Social Equality Minister Gila Gamliel. Joining them a month ago was Yifat Shasha Biton, named construction and housing minister, and Hotoveli three weeks later.

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A long time ago, in the distant past of that same government, then-Habayit Hayehudi and currently Yamina MK Ayelet Shaked served as justice minister, and Yisrael Beytenu MK Sofa Landver was immigration absorption minister.

It could just a game of musical chairs of a caretaker government, orchestrated one month before the general elections – an unprecedented third vote in the span of one year. But despite this current record, female representation in the Israeli parliament stands at just 17%, one of the lowest in the world. Not to mention that the Diaspora Ministry to which Hotoveli was named is one of the most minor ministries. But, just like in the Olympics, in an arena with few records – every win counts.

This record joins another one: The 20th Knesset, the last one that actually functioned, had 29 women after the 2015 elections. At its later days, before it was dissolved ahead of the April 2019 elections, the number of women in the Knesset broke another record – 35 female lawmakers, the highest since Israel's inception in 1948.

But that record was broken mainly due to men quitting parliament and vacating their seats for the next in line. Senior women, prominent political veterans who also led parties, left the Knesset for various reasons. This included figures such as Zehava Galon (Meretz), Shelly Yahimovich (Labor) and Zipi Livni (Kadima, Hatnuah).

Other women have also vanished from Israeli politics: Stav Shaffir, who gave up the second slot on Labor's Knesset roster to form a union between Meretz and Ehud Barak's party, was then pushed down the list and eventually pushed out completely; Aliza Lavie from Yesh Atid and Shuli Mualem-Rafaeli from Habayit Hayehudi, two lawmakers with many credits to their name, especially benefitting women, who despite their diligence were placed in unrealistic slots. Lavie, as of today, is no longer in politics. Mualem is in the 11th slot in Yamina's slate, which polls are now forecasting will only take eight seats.

So, even though they were less than a third of the Knesset, while women are 51% of the population, for a while there was reason to celebrate. But now it's clear that the party is over. Only 27 women were voted into the last Knesset, and according to recent polls, after the vote next month, the number in the 23rd Knesset has no chance of topping 28.

The end of an era

"The regression is significant, and it's much more than just a headcount of women in parliament," Galon told Israel Hayom. "In Meretz there were always women, but for at least a decade and especially over the past few years, there has been a lot of progress when it comes to the presence and influence of women in politics.

"The year 2018 was a turning point for women in Israel and around the world, mainly due to the #MeToo campaign. Something major happened, on many levels. The public discourse changed, the awareness, the personal and public courage, amongst both women and men. But then we got sucked into a whirlpool of elections, and the momentum stopped. Unfortunately, the momentum dissipated was missed or blocked."

In October 2017, after 18 years as a Knesset member, Galon resigned in order to focus on changing the electoral process in Meretz, as she attempted to hold on to the helm of the party that she led since 2012. Galon was certain that holding open primaries would strengthen Meretz, which was losing power. Eventually, a compromise was reached in the party that would call for holding primaries for the first time. But during the challenge for the leadership, Galon dropped out of the race and from politics. At least, the politics between the four walls of the Knesset.

She was replaced by Tamar Zandberg, who two years ago was elected to lead Meretz by a large majority. But Zandberg as well no longer leads the party. Today she is 4th on the Labor-Gesher-Meretz slate, the second slot held by Gesher's Orly Levi Abekasis, yet another woman who no longer heads a party.

In the next elections, not one of the eight parties expected to enter parliament will be led by a woman.

"After five consecutive elections in which women led parties, in the upcoming vote all the leadership positions are held by men," says Michal Gera Margaliot, executive director of the Israel Women's Network.

"Over the past 20 years, since the 1999 elections, we've seen a consistent rise in the number of women in the Knesset, but that trend was halted in the elections over the last year. And it happened right after one of the peak years of feminism in Israel."

"2018 wasn't only the year of #MeToo, with a long and diverse list of activities and campaigns locally and around the world. It was also a year with a dramatic increase in the number of women who competed and won in local elections in Israel, and a year that ended with the largest women's protest to ever take place in Israel, where thousands of women and men demonstrated on Dec. 4, 2018 against violence towards women. Large parts of the public went on strike, with the support of municipalities and both public and private companies. None of this should be taken for granted. There was a feeling of solidarity and strength, of progress that we had not seen until then. That feeling disappeared over the last year, and it's not completely clear if the achievements have been preserved."

Q: So, was all this just a passing fad more than a deep social change?

"There's also the element of changing trends. Now, for example, the trend is climate change. Or has that also weakened? In practice, there's almost no discussion or progress of anything substantial that deviates from the pinpointed political battles of election rounds. It's been almost a year where everything is stuck, the state has no agenda, there is no functioning Knesset or government. And even when there was, you always needed to struggle and fight for women to be part in a way that is at least close to appropriate," Gera Margaliot said.

"The situation is still one where in our world, the neutral is male. If there is no active promotion of women, the result means going backward. Today there is a major regression, and it's not only about representation in numbers. In various lists, women have been pushed back, to the 'women's section', to the fringes. We find most of the women in the less realistic, borderline slots. It's really obvious.

"In Blue and White, five women are in places 36-40, in the Likud six women are in slots 29-35, in Yamina there are five women in slots 7-11, in the Joint List there are two women at 14 and 15, and in Yisrael Beytenu there are two women in slots 9-10. In the Labor-Gesher-Meretz party there are four women in the top 10, while in the 10th slot, which is just barely on the threshold, there is a woman, Revital Swid. In the last two election rounds, women did not take part in coalition negotiations. It was all managed by men, and this is a situation that can and must change after the elections."

"When most of the discussion in politics is about 'yes or no Bibi' and all of his legal cases, the struggle for equality and women's representation is seen as an issue for bleeding hearts who are disconnected from reality," adds Galon. "Not that it was ever simple in that regard, of course not. But now it really seems that also among women, only a few are waving this banner – or even holding up a little flag – and only a few champions insist on having their voices heard, voices affiliated with gender equality or, god forbid, feminism.

"We've gone back to the era of generals, and to beat Netanyahu a special unit has been formed, commanded by not only one Chief of Staff, but three," she continued. "There are quite a few monarchic parties, where the leader compiles the list, including the placement of women. The mergers and patchwork between the parties have diluted the presence of women. The Kulanu party, that was swallowed up by the Likud; the three parties that together form Blue and White; the alliances in Yamina; Labor-Gesher-Meretz; the Joint List. When all these puzzles were put together, many women were pushed down to lower slots, or found themselves outside of the game completely."

The Global Gender Gap Report published annually by the World Economic Forum found that in 2019 Israel tumbled 18 places lower and is now 64th in the world, out of 153 countries. The report is based on the analysis of various elements, such as women's participation in the workforce, the quality of employment, access to education and health, and also political representation, which is the area where the gender gap has been slowest at closing.

"If the point of reference is 35 female members of parliament, then the forecast for 27-29 women in the upcoming Knesset is a significant regression," says Dr. Ofer Kenig a research fellow at the Israel Democracy Institute and a senior lecturer at the Ashkelon Academic College.

"But if one looks at the number of women who entered the Knesset immediately after the vote, it's basically been stable since the 2015 elections. The growth may have stopped, but it's not a complete reversal. At least, that's what I hope. And maybe this is a problematic time to judge the political system that has not been functioning for a year, and for the new women who have been elected and haven't had a chance yet to work and influence. For now, those are the only reasons for optimism.

"On the other hand, the comparison to the rest of the world shows that Israel is not in a good place. In OECD countries there is an incredible improvement in female representation in politics, and in 2018 Israel was almost on a par with them. But then Israel slowed down, while the other countries in the OECD kept on improving, and now there's a gap of about 8%," Kenig said.

"The OECD average is almost 31%, compared to the 23% now in Israel. As of today, Israel is ranked 26th amongst 36 OECD countries in the number of women in parliament, when Mexico is topping the list with 48%, followed closely by Sweden (47.3%), Finland (47%), Spain (44%), Belgium (42%), Switzerland (41.5%), New Zealand and Norway (both on 40.8%).

"When it comes to the number of women in government, Israel is even worse," he continued. "Four female ministers is indeed a record, but it doesn't stop Israel from being in last place compared to democratic countries. Twelve countries are led today by women. Germany, Bangladesh, Norway, Serbia, New Zealand, Iceland, Barbados, Denmark, Belgium and Finland all have female prime ministers. Taiwan and Switzerland have female presidents.

"There are more governments with gender equality: The Trudeau government in Canada, the Macron government in France, and the new governments of Sanchez in Spain and Kurtz in Austria. As part of their election campaigns, candidates are promising the public that they will form more equal governments. Meaning, this is turning into electoral power. One must say honestly and with much sorrow, as opposed to many countries around the world, apparently in Israel this simply isn't an important issue to society."

According to Kenig, "All of this has no relevance currently in our politics, and not only because women don't lead parties and are in low slots on the lists. Netanyahu can't promise to form a government with gender equality when two of his main partners, ultra-Orthodox parties United Torah Judaism and Shas, have never included women in their lists.

"It will be difficult for Gantz, as well, to promise that, mainly because the list he leads is very unequal gender-wise. Furthermore, the prime minister-elect in Israel must form a coalition government, and therefore has no control over half of the ministers, because they come from the other joining parties. So, it doesn't seem like there will be a gender-equal government any time soon in Israel."
Maybe one can find comfort in the fact that not long ago it was a lot worse.

During Israel's first 50 years, women were, at best, just about one-tenth of all parliament members. Up until the 1999 election, the number of female lawmakers stood between 7-11. The record during the first 50 years was in 1955 when 12 women were elected to the Knesset, but that was an anomaly, and their numbers dropped immediately afterward.

The lowest point was when Israel celebrated 40 years as a democratic state, in 1988, when only seven female lawmakers sat in the Knesset. A humble 5.8%.

Golda was the last

In this unflattering picture of reality there was one ray of light: Golda Meir. An exception, not only in Israel, but on a global level, that broke through and shattered every obstacle and ceiling out there, especially for herself. Even to this day there are debates over how much Meir promoted women in Israel, if at all.

On the one hand, she advanced social legislation that women were the first to benefit from. On the other hand, she did not miss any opportunity to declare that she "is not very impressed with the kind of 'feminism' that calls for burning bras," and stressed that "the fact that I am a woman never hindered me in any way," and did not promote women around her.

Despite the fact that burning bras is a myth originating in fake news that was used against feminist activists in the US in the 1960s, the precedents that Meir established did not pave the way for other women. For them, the fact they were women did indeed hinder them quite a bit.

During Israel's first 25 years, Meir was the only woman to serve in the government. For 20 years and 12 governments, she was the only woman who served as a minister (labor minister and foreign minister). Despite being the first and only woman in Israel to be Prime Minister (and the third in the world to be elected to the position in democratic elections, after Sri Lanka and India), the governments she formed were made up only of men.

After her resignation from the premiership in 1974 and the formation of the Rabin government, Shulamit Aloni of the Ratz party – Meretz's predecessor – was appointed minister. But it was without portfolio, and she served for only five months.

Only in 1986 was another woman appointed minister, when Shoshana Arbeli-Almozlino (Labor) served for two years as Health Minister in the rotation government led by Yitzhak Shamir. In total, only 19 women have served as ministers in all of Israel's 72 years.

"Till this day people ask me why it matters, and what is so important in fair and proper representation of women in parliament and government," says Limor Livnat, who served 23 years as a Likud lawmaker and 14 years as communications minister, science, culture and sports minister, and education minister. "They wonder about the significance of my being the only woman in Netanyahu's government in 1996, where I first served as Communications Minister. A government of 18 ministers, 17 of them male.

"So first, it's important to clarify, we were actually two women. Me and the stenographer. Besides that, in all my years in parliament, also as a veteran minister, experienced and senior, I was always in a daily battle for survival. Women are a sociological minority, and I felt it every day when I came to the Knesset. Even outside the Knesset, the playing field was completely male. The Likud Central Committee, all the cliques, the power groups – all men. These doubts about the importance of female representation are no more than feigning innocence or a complete lack of awareness.

"I became a political activist because of ideology and the education I got at home, and that I was born to serve the state," she said. "I admit that at the beginning, none of that included gender awareness or a feminist agenda. But life taught me this lesson.

"Pretty quickly I understood that I'm 'unelectable'. My colleagues in political activity in the university and the Likud movement were elected to significant postings, moving ahead and working, while I was left behind. Roni Milo, Dan Meridor, Miki Eitan, Michael Kleiner and others who started their political paths at the same time as me, moved faster and I wasn't chosen for any post just because I'm a woman.

"I would come to interviews for various political posts, and before anything, they would look at my clothes, my hair. Look at my hands and search for a wedding ring, or just ask 'Are you married?', 'Will your husband allow you to be out of the house?', 'Who will take care of the kids?.' This was in the 1980s, not that long ago, and allow me to presume that to this day women have similar experiences," Livnat noted.

"In the 1988 elections the Likud won 40 seats, and I didn't get into parliament because I was in 44th place. That's how bad the situation was. Ahead of me was only Sarah Doron from 'The Liberals.' that as part of union deals was put in 39th place, after she had already served as a minister without portfolio."

"That was a point of no return for me. I learned from experience that just because I'm a woman I am blocked, and therefore I have to create power for myself. Men who are no better than me pass over me? Fine, I get it, and there's no way I'm giving up. At that time I became active in the Women's Lobby. There I joined other women and we created power for ourselves. Great women, like Tamar Gozansky from Hadash, Naomi Chazan from Meretz and Yael Dayan from Labor.

"In the 1992 elections I was voted into the Knesset and we started working together, despite our ideological differences," she continued. "During the same year the [Knesset] Committee for Advancing the Status of Women was created, and Yael Dayan headed it, and that's when things started to happen. We didn't agree on a lot of issues. We would argue, raise our voices and even fight in the Knesset plenum and in protests. It was a difficult and nerve-wracking time. The Oslo agreements, the murder of Rabin. But we knew how to put everything aside in order to advance women. I remember a protest that Yael and I took part in, where they yelled at me that whoever doesn't support the two-state solution cannot really be a feminist. When Yael heard that, she stood in front of them and gave them a mouthful.

"Regardless of the diplomatic issue, the right-wing had no awareness or interest in gender equality. I had a few discussions about this with Geula Cohen. She told me 'I'm only concerned about the Land of Israel'. I told her 'OK, Geula, but I have another mission, and it is directly connected to the good of the Land of Israel and the people of Israel.'

"Women are the largest human resource in Israel, quantity and quality-wise. If equality is not promised to women and if barriers are not removed, you're hurting the state and society. Very simple.

"Geula was an amazing, powerful, educated, and knowledgeable woman. She could have easily taken on other fields of action, add another mission to her agenda. So, it wasn't always easy with women, either. On the other hand, throughout the years there were many men who played a significant role in promoting equality. But there must be many women to create joint power and to be committed to the issue. I hope I'm wrong, but my feeling is that today there are not enough women like that in the Knesset."

Q: For over 20 years you felt you were constantly fighting to survive?

"In one way or another, yes. Even a battle for attention. Around the government table, as a minister, the minute I began speaking about a diplomatic or defense issue, the attention would drop dramatically, in a split second. Like many women who try to achieve their goals in an unequal or chauvinistic setting, I had to fight, be tough, determined and uncompromising. But when it comes to women, that kind of behavior makes you look like a bitch. like an aggressive dog."
'Legislation is needed'

It's hard to imagine any major change happening while two of the parties that make up parliament - Shas and United Torah Judaism - do not allow women on their slates. It seemed like 2018 was a turning point in that regard, when the issue was addressed by the High Court of Justice. After it intervened, United Torah Judaism year removed from its party constitution (which originated from that of Agudat Yisrael) a clause that said "a member of the party can be: A Jewish man of 18 years and older, who observes Torah and mitzvot. A woman can join the Women of Agudat Yisrael, which will be a separate body, in the spirit of Halacha, connected organically and spiritually to Agudat Yisrael." Shas, which had a similar clause in its party terms, also announced it would change its accordingly.

"In reality nothing changed," says Esti Shushan, who in 2012 founded the NGO "The Chosen" – a Haredi women's organization that works for "representation, equality and a voice in the public spheres in Israel."

Shushan and her colleagues in the group work in every possible way to allow Haredi women to run for parliament as part of orthodox parties. But they were not part of the petitioners to the High Court of Justice "out of respect to the Haredi community, which we are part of." says Shushan.
"However, we did submit a position paper, and for three years we were involved in every stage and came to every hearing that dealt directly with our lives and futures. We came with our eyes wide open, because we knew it was impossible to force change through legal means on an issue that is at the heart of Haredi culture and society.

"We had hoped, at least, that this way the issue would be part of the public discourse and would eventually lead to change. But in the end, even after a lot of progress thanks to the High Court of Justice, nothing has changed. We again became targets for attacks and criticism, from Haredi society but also from seculars, such as in the media, where they belittled our work and showed a lot of ignorance when they claimed we're not connected to the petition. We're used to paying high prices for our views. For me this is my life project, and I won't give up until I'm done."

Q: Have you tried to contact United Torah Judaism and Shas? Have a direct dialogue?

"Of course, many times and in many ways," she said. "On Jan. 13, two days before the party lists were closed, we wrote to [UTJ] MK Moshe Gafni, and ministers Aryeh Deri and Moshe Litzman. We told them that 'the time has come to integrate women in the lists.' Anywhere. Even only one woman. As long as women become part of it. We again explained that the current situation does not allow for the representation of the needs and challenges of Haredi women in different communities, who find it difficult to get help from the male representatives at all points of decision making and influence. We didn't get any response.

"Some of my colleagues and I met with one of the Haredi MKs in his Knesset office, and we asked to find a way to change things. He said to me, 'You know the community. You can't make processes move fast. Meanwhile, I am representing you.' But I don't want men to represent me, and I don't want non-Orthodox women to represent me either, even if their intentions are pure. In a democratic state, Haredi women must also have the basic right to be elected for office. The politics in Israel are so sectoral, that if there is no representation - there is no voice."

"It's true that it's not a good situation, and there's a long road ahead, but there is a possibility to influence even now," says Gera Margaliot. "To insist that women take part in the coalition talks. To anchor in the coalition deals female representation. To have women head of Knesset committees, they wield immense power. To be appointed regulators, directors general of government ministries. I have many suggestions, and none of them involve a compromise or favor being given to women. It's been proven enough times that women are very effective in parliamentary work, and not only that.

"What more has been proven is that legislation and affirmative action policy, that I prefer to call positive discrimination, are the sure way for growing female representation. Because there is no shortage of women who want to be in politics and women who are talented and suitable for political jobs. Most of the discrimination is not on purpose. It's not a male conspiracy, and the situation can be fixed by legislation that would give budgets or take budgets from parties, according to their female representation."
The women's party

Massive legislation and fieldwork are what brought about the major change in the local elections of 2018. A large part of the activity was led by a coalition that included 26 organizations, called "Local women 2018."

"We started when women representation at heads of local municipalities was at 2% (six women), and now it's gone up to 14%," says Dr. Mazal Shaul, Executive Director of WePower, which has been working for 20 years promoting women representation in politics.

"Of the 256 municipalities in Israel, in 98 of them, there was not one woman. Most of them are Arab municipalities, but also Jewish ones – and not necessarily Orthodox. Today there are 14 female mayors, twice as many, and a growth of 40% in the number of female local council members. A large part of this happened due to legislation.

"According to an amendment to the law of local government that was approved in parliament in 2014, a party that at least one-third of its members elected to the council are women received a budget hike of 15% from the total election funding amount it was due by law. It's not a lot of money, and it's basically a very simple step that made a dramatic change."

Shaul, a doctor of chemistry, recently went on unpaid leave as the director of the NGO in order to lead The Women's Voice, a party of women that is running for the Knesset for the first time in these upcoming elections.

"I know that women's parties have been unsuccessful in the past, but the local elections proved to me that the public is ready. The advance in female representation is moving now at the speed of a dying turtle. If we continue to wait for them to put us in realistic slots on the party lists, nothing will happen. We decided to make a real move and enter the game."

The post Are women being pushed out of Israeli politics? appeared first on www.israelhayom.com.

Rubinstein says that for him, the possibility of National Union MK Bezalel Smotrich being named education minister "a catastrophe."

"Even now, the Education Ministry is a religious ministry. Public education is discriminated against, primarily when it comes to budgeting. There isn't one minister or one MK in the coalition who took action to defend public education. The Education Ministry's curriculum is completely Orthodox Judaism. High school students complete their schooling without knowing that there are other, more important streams," he says.

Rubinstein argues that while the secular are the majority in Israel, "politically, the secular the minority. They have nearly no influence, and there is no one who defends their lifestyle. I don't remember the last law, or bill, that was designed to benefit the secular population."

Discussing the results of last week's Knesset election, Rubinstein says he finds it difficult to believe that the Labor party will ever rebound from such a severe beating.

"The Palestinians contributed to the downfall of the Left. The practical basis – which I support – of territory for peace has failed," he says.

Rubinstein was one of the founders of the Meretz party and praises it as "the only party in which Jews and Arabs work together, in an egalitarian manner. They are the only ones who fight for the secular public with all their might, in part through their consistent demand to separate religion and state. However, I have reservations about the automatic position that Israel is always at fault. Meretz is too radical on matters of security and peace, and should put more emphasis on patriotism."

The former minister says the Likud "calls itself a national, liberal movement, but it's not liberal in the slightest. 'Anti-liberal' would be the correct term for it. The acceptance of or agreement that women should not pray at the Western Wall, in their own way and according to their own beliefs, the inequality women face in the military, repeated remarks rejecting Reform Judaism, etc."

"I haven't seen a single Likud bill that actually promotes equal rights," he says.

"The schisms in the Israeli public have grown immensely, and the government and the prime minister have widened that schism – partly by inciting against anyone who thinks differently than [Prime Minister] Netanyahu. It's caused a lot of Israelis to despair of politics."

According to Rubinstein, the right-wing government is leading processes that "cause a major conflict and alienation between us [Israelis] and North American Jewry, who are important to Israel. Irresponsibly, we accept that growing alienation, which is the result of hostility toward the demands of a minority."

"I take comfort in one thing: the attempt by the New Right party to bring down a failed legal system. But the threat still exists. Many people in the Likud and the religious parties are hostile to the Supreme Court and want to weaken it, or turn judges into representatives of politicians," he says.

The post 'The Palestinians led to the downfall of the Left' appeared first on www.israelhayom.com.

In 2016, Azaria was at the center of a controversy that divided the country. He had shot and killed a terrorist that had already been incapacitated near the West Bank city of Hebron, and later stood trial and was convicted of manslaughter. He was recently released from prison after having served nine of the 14-month sentence he had received.

Q: Yom Kippur is approaching. Is there anyone you would like to ask for forgiveness?

"No," he says, his smile receding. "I am entirely at peace with myself. I did what needed to be done. I followed my truth. I did the right thing and I should not have had to pay a price for everything that happened. I have no remorse. I have no doubt. If you put me back in that situation, during those seconds in Hebron, I would do the exact same thing again. Because that's exactly what should have been done."

The walls of the building where Azaria lives still display countless posters supporting him. The elevator and the stairwell leading to his parents' house in Ramle are still papered with notices, stickers and signs with slogans such as "Elor Azaria – an Israeli hero" and "Elor, everyone's soldier."

Oshra and Charlie Azaria's top-floor apartment remains exactly as it was two and a half years ago, at the height of one of the most explosive controversies Israel has known. Inside the house, the campaign in support of Elor continues, even though he has been a free man for over three months. Both sides of the door, the living room walls, the large balcony, the bookshelves, even the white challah cover – all bear Elor's image, in uniform.

"My parents told me that when I get out, I will be shocked. I was more or less aware of what was happening outside, but I didn't know everything. I hardly had any furloughs. I had maybe six furloughs, and a short time under house arrest, but all that time I was restricted and couldn't leave the house."

Q: When did you learn that your sentence was reduced and that you were being set free?

"I knew that there was support out there for me, but I didn't realize the scope. It makes my heart happy, you know. The people of Israel came together and they stood united behind us all this time. I am grateful for the support and the help extended to my family at all times. It is not a given. There is no one better than our people – that is a fact. There is no one like the people of Israel."

Q: What about the IDF? And the State of Israel?

"Also. Ever since I was young, I was raised on patriotism and Zionism. I was taught to love my homeland and to defend it. We would never say 'let's start a life in another country' – this is our land and there will always be pride in our land.

"I do feel disappointment, however. My heart sours a little about the injustice and the miscarriage of justice, about what they did to me just because a few senior officials opened their mouths. It hurts. But I will always love the country and the IDF. I came out of jail wearing the same shirt I wore going in – a shirt that says 'I have no other country' and the national anthem with an Israel flag.

"Thank God, I am home. The ordeal is over. I am moving forward with my head held high. Nothing has changed for me. I will continue to love the state and I'll continue to love the army, and I still believe that it is important to serve the country, in the reserves too, and that is what I will do."

Q: You plan to serve in the reserves? Even though you were convicted of manslaughter?

"When I was discharged I got assigned to a reserves unit and a combat reserves certificate. An officer came to my house and personally gave me the assignment and the certificate. Because of the conviction, the army deducted about half of the benefits I was entitled to, but they still want me to serve in the reserves."

^^^

The Azaria family's Shabbat meal has been ready since the early afternoon. Oshra has prepared couscous and a vegetable soup and a spicy matbucha (tomato and pepper salad), and Charlie and Elor were in charge of the zucchini salad. Charlie and Oshra haven't left Elor's side since he was released. They are still very upset, hurt and wound up. They want to make their voices heard.

Charlie, 56, worked as a police investigator for 30 years. Today he is retired. Oshra, 53, worked for years as a caretaker for the elderly but left her job shortly after her son's arrest. Two weeks ago, she went back to work as an assistant kindergarten teacher, and she looks after babies as well.

Elor sits on the large sofa in the living room, wearing jean shorts and a black T-shirt that accentuates the golden pendant he wears around his neck. It is a Beitar Jerusalem pendant, as he has been a fan of the Beitar Jerusalem soccer club since early childhood. Willie, a small puppy Elor received as a gift about a month before his arrest, is restlessly running around the living room.

We are joined by Elor's friend, Shachar Keller from Kibbutz Ein Tzurim, who served with Elor in his unit. He had maintained contact with the Azaria family throughout the ordeal. Since Keller is a hesder yeshiva student, he was discharged from the unit before Elor, and "became a member of the family," Oshra remarks.

The Azaria family was forever changed on the morning of Thursday, March 24, 2016. It was Purim. Shortly after 8 a.m., two young Palestinians arrived at Gilbert Junction in the Tel Rumeida neighborhood of Hebron, looking to attack Israeli soldiers. Wielding knives, they pounced on two soldiers manning the checkpoint at the junction and were shot on sight.

One of the soldiers sustained stab wounds, and one of the attackers was killed. The other remained on the ground, badly wounded, having sustained six gunshots. Several minutes later, the Kfir Brigade unit, in which Azaria served as a combat medic, arrived at the scene.

There was chaos at the scene of the terrorist attack. A large number of soldiers, emergency medical staff, volunteers, residents and security personnel from the Jewish community in Hebron were all milling about. When Azaria arrived, he first rushed to the wounded soldier to administer first aid and evacuate him to an ambulance. Then, according to the indictment, he began moving toward the terrorist that was lying on the ground, unmoving. He cocked his personal weapon and fired a single bullet into the terrorist's skull.

The entire event was filmed by an activist belonging to the human rights organization B'Tselem. The footage was widely distributed to all the media outlets and within hours, it became one of most controversial events in Israel's history.

From the start, Azaria dismissed the allegations against him – that he had shot the terrorist in violation of IDF protocol and without justification and that the terrorist posed no immediate threat. On January 4, 2017, a military court unanimously convicted Azaria of manslaughter and unbecoming conduct, sentencing him to 18 months in jail and 12 months' probation.

About six months later, on July 30, 2017, the court denied the appeal filed by Azaria's defense team. A panel of five judges ruled that Azaria's account was not credible and upheld his conviction. In their ruling, they reiterated that the shooting was unjustified and asserted that it was done out of vengeance rather than self-defense.

In the ruling, the judges said further that "alongside criminal culpability, the appellant's actions blatantly violated a number of norms – the value of human life, anyone's life, is a fundamental value in our society and a cornerstone of the IDF's ideology. The appellant trampled on this value when he killed a wounded and helpless terrorist even though there was no operational need to do so."

In Sept. 2017, IDF Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Gadi Eizenkot shortened Azaria's sentence from 18 months to 14 months, citing "goodwill and mercy."

^^^

Azaria's appeal was denied, as were the requests submitted by more than 50 ministers and MKs – including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and ministers Avigdor Lieberman, Ayelet Shaked, Naftali Bennett, Moshe Kahlon and Gilad Erdan – to review the case. He was detained and incarcerated for a total of 26 months, until his release on May 8 of this year.

"The jail at the Nahshonim base was like an open jail," he says. "From noon or 1 p.m. there is almost no one around. In the mornings I did chores and in the afternoons I went back to my room and stayed there, between four walls. Everyone goes home and I have to stay with the foxes and the cats on the base."

"They gave me the NCO's room – it was a quiet room. A bed, a television, a refrigerator, a desk, a few chairs. There was a bus driver on the base who slipped a copy of Israel Hayom under my door almost every day, so I generally had something to read."

"On Fridays, my parents would come to my room to say kiddush. Sometimes they visited me during the week as well, with my brother Adir and my sisters Etti and Dana and my uncle Victor. One or twice I was allowed to have a friend over."

Q: What was the response from the soldiers on the base?

"Everyone came over to me and said, 'Way to go' and 'You did the right thing.' No one said a single bad word. After the first conviction, the commanders at Nahshonim gathered the soldiers and told them 'you know, Elor got 18 months. Give him strength.'"

^^^

The events of that morning in Hebron still resonate in Elor today. Even during this interview, he relives every moment. "That morning I was sleeping in my uniform. I was on alert as the company signal operator and brigade medic. Suddenly the other signal operator starts yelling at me 'get up! Get up!' I didn't understand what was happening. I put on my vest very fast and ran to the commander's room. He wasn't there so I went to the gate and asked a soldier there, where is everybody. I didn't really understand what he said, but I got that there was a terrorist attack and that someone got stabbed.

"I ran toward the post, with all my gear, and the first thing I saw was the wounded soldier, covered in blood. I immediately went to him, stopped the blood with my hands and bandaged him. I saw that someone had misapplied the bandage and he was gushing blood. I calmed him down, told him it was OK, because it's not pleasant when you see blood.

"According to protocol I was supposed to put on gloves before treating him, but in the field, there is no time to remember all the steps you learned. The field is not a book. The people sitting in air-conditioned rooms analyzing seconds and temperatures can continue to live in their delusions. That's not the field.

"As I was taking the wounded soldier to the ambulance, I saw the first terrorist. Then I heard screaming. Someone yelled that there was a bomb. I was hot. I was sweating like crazy. It was a mess and there was no one in charge. I looked up and I saw that there was another terrorist. I saw him, I saw that he was wearing a puffy black coat, and I heard yelling 'someone, do something.' There was a knife within his reach, despite what they later claimed. I was there. I saw how far the knife was.

"Everything together led to a moment's instinct. Everything came together and I acted just as I was taught from the moment I began learning combat. I remember cocking my gun, yelling to the company commander and the platoon commander 'move! Move!' and I shot at his head. That's where it ended."

Q: Assuming the knife was in fact within his reach, why shoot at his head, and not, say, at his hand? You knew that shooting him in the head meant death.

"It's logic. It's not … If I thought it was just about the knife, maybe I would have fired at his hand or kicked the knife away. One of the judges asked me and I explained to him: You can't pick apart the threats. There was a knife and bomb. I didn't know what he had under his clothes. Only God knew.

"I fired one shot. The terrorist's head was the only part of his body that was exposed and I learned in my medics' training that when the head is hit it affects the entire body. Not to compare, but the stroke my father had during the trial affected his entire body.

"When he was IDF chief of staff, the late Raful [Rafael Eitan] said that in the battlefield, every soldier is the chief of staff. Everyone who criticized and lost their moral bearing – they won't decide for me. They can't tell me what happened out there. No one can see inside the mind of a soldier during an operation in hostile territory."

Oshra: "The prosecutor asked Elor, 'Why didn't you shoot his hand if you thought he was going to detonate a bomb?' and Elor said, 'Because he has another hand.' Regardless, they said the shooting was motivated by vengeance. Right? But when you want vengeance you fire a lot of shots, not a single bullet."

Q: Upon investigation, it was revealed that the terrorist was not carrying a bomb. Only a knife, which was not in his hand. And in any case, he was lying on the ground in serious condition after having been shot.

Elor: "When I looked at the first terrorist, I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Unlike the other terrorist, he didn't move and wasn't wearing anything suspicious. I couldn't have known that he was shot and I was certain that he had a bomb. To this day I'm a million percent convinced that there was a bomb."

Q: So where is the bomb?

Charlie: "That's a good question. There are videos where you can see the evacuation of the terrorists. One of them, they just threw a blanket over him and that's it. The other one, the one Elor shot, two soldiers hid him with a blanket. They wrapped the body and took him from there."

Elor: "Listen, regardless, I know that I'm innocent and that I acted the way I should. The fact is that after the event, I continued to secure the Purim parade for four hours, with a loaded weapon. If they think it was an 'unbecoming' event why didn't they take my weapon, first thing? They say it was an improper shooting? In that case, the ranking officer takes the weapon, takes the magazine out and keeps the shooter away from the gun.  If the incident was so severe, the commander wouldn't have bothered to come to me and say, 'Pick up the terrorist's brains.' If it was so severe, then they should have grounded me on the spot, not sent me to collect the terrorist's brains."

Q: That's what you were asked to do?

"After the shooting, the company commander Maj. Tom Naaman yelled, 'Who fired?!' and I immediately said it was me. Everything continued normally, they started to evacuate the scene and the commander told me to pick up the terrorist's brains and added, 'Good luck.' I put on two pairs of gloves. My hands were still covered in the wounded soldier's blood. I didn't even know how to pick it up. Then the Zaka people came and they yelled at me. 'What are you doing? We're cleaning up the scene.'"

Q: This information did not come up in the initial investigation

"I remembered it suddenly in one of the remand hearings and I immediately told my father."

Charlie: "He said to me, 'Dad, the commander told me to pick up the brains.' I realized he was suffering from post-trauma and that he was remembering snippets all the time. I briefed the attorneys and he told them that he could see an image before his eyes of the commander telling him to pick up the brains.

"They told the judge and the military prosecutor immediately said he was lying because neither he nor the commander talked about it in their depositions. The commander didn't talk about it or report it at all. It's unusual, to ask something like that. It was only after Elor said something that he confirmed it."

Elor: "After everything happened, I sent dad a text message because I knew that my parents follow the news all the time. I told them that there was an attack and that I neutralized the terrorist. Not a second passed and he called. I told him everything was OK, not to worry about me, and that I would call when I have time."

Charlie: "I could hear in his voice that he was tense. I told him 'Elor, everything is OK.' It's not a simple thing to kill a person. I don't wish it on anyone, to do it or to see it. It's very difficult."

Elor: "It was only at around noon or 1 p.m. that the company commander called me in and told me that the Shimshon Battalion commander, Lt. Col. David Shapira, wanted to talk to me. He asked me to explain what happened, and I did."

Q: Did you explain that you were worried about the knife and about a bomb?

"I can guarantee that I told him about the knife and the bomb. When I told him about the knife he lost it and said I was lying and that he doesn't believe me. He asked why I didn't kick the knife away if I was worried about the knife. I said, 'But there wasn't just a knife, there was also a bomb' and he said that he didn't believe me and suspended me until further notice. He said that I would stand trial.

"The company commander himself was surprised when I told him what had happened. I didn't know what they wanted from me. I knew I acted properly. There was a clear and immediate threat and I had neutralized it, end of story. There was nothing unusual about the event in terms of the surroundings. We brought lots of defense witnesses who corroborated that.

"I didn't come out of nowhere. About two weeks earlier, there was a security alert about a terrorist cell. It was a serious alert, that the cell was going to execute a 'quality' attack.

"I then told a friend who served with me that I was suspended from combat and that I was going to be tried. He put down his weapon and his helmet and said, 'I don't care. I'm not staying here. What is this nonsense?' I said to him, 'Listen, there is a Purim parade, continue securing, no playing. I'll explain what happened and everything will be fine.'

"I was convinced that everything was going to be fine. I turned my weapon in. I didn't even take my stuff from my locker. I didn't take shoes or anything. I really thought that I would explain everything to the brigade commander and come right back. All good.

"The car came to take me to be tried in front of the brigade commander. I had never been on trial before. I was also still reeling a little from the event itself. I stood before the brigade commander, it was just the two of us in the room. He asked me what happened. I told him that there were two threats. He said that from the video that was posted online it didn't look good. I told him that I know what happened. I know I did what's right. After two minutes it was over. As far as I was concerned, I had told him what happened and now everything was going back to normal.

"I called my dad to tell him that I was tried and that I was going back. My father, who has some experience, said to me, 'Elor, they're going to question you. Know that you have rights. I'll get you a lawyer.'"

Charlie: "No one approached us or offered Elor a military defender. No one. I approached attorney Yossi Boker, whom I knew, and he helped us in the beginning."

Elor: "I didn't understand what my father was talking about. I thought I was done.

"But I wasn't done. Military investigators took me in for questioning. They were mean to me. One of them snatched my phone from my hand while I was talking to my dad.

"They took me to the base and I waited in the car for 30 minutes. I said, 'I'm thirsty, let me just go get a soda.' Eventually one of them brought me a bottle of water. I was hot, and I got comfortable in the seat. It's the way I sit naturally. So one of them yelled at me, 'who do you think you are? Why are you sitting like that?'

"From there they took me to a base in Beersheba and the investigation began. The investigator sat across from me and said, 'Listen, you are being charged with the murder of a Palestinian.' I was in shock. 'Murder? What murder? What's wrong with you? What Palestinian? It was a terrorist.' Then the lead investigator joined us. It was hard for him to hear my truth. I later understood that they had already decided to go with what the senior defense officials had said in the media."

Q: What do you mean?

"I was taken in at 6 or 6:30 p.m. Two hours earlier, Moshe Ya'alon, the defense minister, now thankfully the former defense minister, issued a statement, and so did the IDF chief of staff, supposedly after an internal and operational investigation. How is that logical, if I was only questioned two hours later? The people will decide who is lying. The IDF Spokesperson issued a statement before my investigation saying that the chief of staff thought this was a grave incident."

Q: Did you know about all this?

"I heard people talking about it on the radio on the way to Beersheba, but I didn't really understand what was going on exactly. I thought I was going home. What is this nonsense? But during questioning I understood. I told the investigators that I had been thrown to the wolves to please the world. During questioning, I realized that people were talking against me. To this day I feel like I was thrown to the wolves."

^^^

"In the first two investigations, the charge was murder," Elor continues. "It was only the third time around that the charge was reduced to manslaughter. And then, in the first hearing at court, the prosecutor called the terrorist 'the deceased.' He also called him 'defenseless' and 'helpless' – it was shameful.

"They talk to me about the sanctity of life. Show me a Jewish mother who hands out candy after her precious child is killed. That's not sanctity of life. I don't know how anyone can describe a terrorist with the words 'deceased' or 'defenseless.' That's how it is when everything becomes distorted; when everything is already decided in advance at the top.

"Nothing would have happened if everything had been honest. If there was no miscarriage of justice, and if all kinds of senior officials hadn't opened their mouths and spewed nonsense. They are still saying this nonsense.

"I still can't grasp it. I know I acted properly, no one will convince me otherwise. That's why I appealed. As much as everyone tried to dissuade me, I didn't give up. There is only one truth and I am going all the way with it, with my head held high. My parents told me that, even with the little things, stick with the truth to the end.

"No one will change that. No minister and no official. Many people tried to convince my previous lawyers not to appeal. They there would be a counter appeal. I didn't back down, and I filed the appeal. People were so upset to see that."

Q: Was it your position or were you pressured? Was there pressure from the people who enlisted to support you?

"No one can tell me to do X, Y or Z. When I was 18 or 19 I was responsible for civilians' lives. I said that I know I'm innocent, and I'm going all the way. No question."

Charlie: "Long before the indictment was filed, I was offered a deal – if Elor expresses remorse and confesses, he will get only a year and a half in jail. I said what should he confess to? The right thing that he did? You taught him to be a fighter, you put a weapon in his hand, and that's what a fighter does when there is real danger."

Elor: "I remember that offer. I said no way. I have nothing to be remorseful about. No one can see inside a fighter's judgment. I won't confess and I won't express remorse and I know I did everything right. I will face trial and I will be exonerated and quite a few people will feel very ashamed.

"The fact that it reached the point of appeal demonstrates how rigged the whole thing was. Influencing witnesses, distorted facts. The key testimony, that of the company commander, was stricken. But still, I was convicted."

Charlie: "They did things that, if they were done in a civil trial, the judge would have kicked the prosecutor in the ass all the way to hell, and I say this as a police investigator. Everything was rigged."

^^^

"Emotionally speaking, the most important trial of my career was, without a doubt, Elor Azaria's," says attorney Yoram Sheftel, who represented Azaria in the appeal.

Referring to his stint defending convicted Nazi John Demjanjuk, Sheftel says that "in the Demjanjuk trial, my motivation was to shatter the show trial that the man had been given. I obviously had no sentiments for this Ukrainian non-Jew. Conversely, in Elor's case, everything I had was directed to making things better for him.

"What I wanted with all my being and all my might, and did not succeed, sadly, was to rescue him from the talons that had grasped his throat and denied him the slightest chance at a fair trial. The moment the defense minister and the chief of staff publicly admonished Elor, calling him a beastly murderer who shot a terrorist without reason, before any type of investigation even began, they robbed him of whatever chance he could have had.

"His fate was sealed. A  military court will never acquit a defendant that was viewed this way by the defense establishment. I have no doubt that ultimately, the chief of staff shortened Elor's sentence by four months just to atone for the way he spoke that day, sealing Elor's fate."

According to Sheftel, "It was actually the challenge of the impossible that generated boundless motivation to achieve the only logical legal conclusion – Elor's complete acquittal. He acted the way any soldier would be expected to act. The conviction in the lower court relied first and foremost on the testimony of the company commander, Tom Naaman. That testimony was stricken in its entirety in the appeal, but the conviction was upheld. This proves that the appeal verdict is tainted with complete lack of logic.

"Another key testimony, given by private T.M., relied heavily on the company commander's account. Therefore, under the rule of legal evidence, the moment the company commander's testimony collapsed, this testimony should have also been stricken. Furthermore, the private's assertion that Elor yelled that the terrorist wanted to kill his friend and therefore deserved to die – allegedly proving Elor's vengeful motivation – contradicted the facts from the scene. It contradicts the objective video filmed by B'Tselem.

"Elor's conviction is a legal outrage – one of the biggest in the history of the state. A conviction that is refuted by hard evidence. It is nearly unprecedented. It is very unfortunate that an IDF soldier who killed a terrorist under circumstances that demanded it has been sent to prison."

Elor: "It is time that the public knew some things. When I was in one of the detention facilities, a number of senior officers involved in the case came to me. Names are not important. They said, 'we want to talk to you.' My first response was 'I don't want to see them.' But then I took some time and thought to myself that I actually do want to confront them with the facts. We met. They lowered their gazes and I insisted on looking them in the eye. They asked me to promise that our meeting would be kept confidential and nothing would leak. They didn't want anyone to know about it. They said to me 'we're sorry. We made a mistake.' They said that their conscience was bothering them. That was a disappointment on top of a disappointment."

Q: What were they sorry about?

"That they lied in their testimonies. I told them I would keep my word. That no one would know about our conversation. I didn't even tell my brothers. I just said, 'OK, you've cleared your conscience with me, you can check off that box, now there are two more people I want you to apologize to. You know my family – no one will kick you out. Talk to my parents. I know that you have important jobs and you don't have time, a phone call will suffice.'

"We set a time for them to call the next day. I was on furlough at home and I waited with my parents for them to call. Nothing. No phone call. To this day. It only made it clear to me that they had only come to me to clear their conscience."

Q: Are you saying that you heard witnesses in the case confess that they lied in their testimony? Why won't you reveal their names?

"I won't expose them. My word is like steel. It is my honor. Even though they spat in my face, sorry for the expression. Only my parents know who they are."

Charlie: "I respect Elor. He gave his word of honor. In our family, we have our honor. So I keep my mouth shut and push it inward. These people stabbed not only him in the back but all IDF soldiers. Understand this, officers who lie for a promotion. For heaven's sake.

"We send our children out there, to follow commanders. If commanders don't have the soldiers' backs, we've lost it. I raised my children to accept responsibility and that a word of honor is a word of honor. That's exactly how Elor is behaving. When Elor sees an elderly lady on the bus, he will give up his seat. You don't see that with others. That's how my children were raised."

Elor: "I understood early on that everything was predetermined from high up. When I was at Nahshonim, a military police officer approached me and told me that he had seen one of the judges who ruled on my detention. The judge told him 'I'm so happy I'm not on that case anymore. A cloud has been lifted.' That's when I understood that it was even higher up that the decision was made. The judges knew that they had an acquittal, but who would dare acquit when the defense minister, the chief of staff and other general staff officials could lose their seats over it? It is much simpler to just convict the lowly soldier, and let him deal with it."

Q: Ya'alon left the Defense Ministry shortly after the incident. Why do you think it continued after he left?

"The effort wasn't just his. The chief of staff said that the soldiers' motivation wasn't harmed, but then he went on television with a group of other chiefs of staff and when they were asked about their biggest challenge, he said, 'Elor Azaria.' What about Iran? Hamas? Hezbollah? Arson terrorism? I'm your challenge?

"They threw a soldier under the bus so that the Palestinians won't rise up and stage a day of rage, as Ya'alon explained. But the Palestinians have plenty of days of rage. Every Friday in Hebron in a day of rage."

^^^

Elor's brother got married on a Wednesday, a day before Elor's release. The family thought that he would have been released already by then but only realized that they had miscalculated when it was too late. "In jail, there's a 72-hour furlough that is usually tacked on to the release date," Elor explains. "I submitted a request to be released 96 hours before the release so I could make my brother's henna party. The henna party was on a Monday. They promised me an answer by Sunday, but on Monday I still didn't know if I was getting out or not.

"In jail, I worked at a workshop run by a civilian. He also submitted a request for an answer. He told me that the answer he was given was 'there are regular soldiers, and then there is Elor Azaria. The highest echelons need to approve his release.'

"I took it really hard. I told him I would beg. Even if I miss my brother's wedding. I did end up missing the henna party, but the next day, after prayers, an officer told me I was being released. It was 6:15 in the morning I think. I asked for a few minutes to say goodbye to the soldiers and they said, 'Nothing. You get out of here now.' They put the soldiers into cells, cleared the area and escorted me out. It was only in the car that they let me call my parents to let them know that I was coming home."

Oshra: "At 6:30 a.m. I got a call from him and I started yelling with excitement. I think the entire neighborhood heard me.

Q: Why was the release done this way?

Oshra: "So that it wouldn't turn into a circus. A party. Even though it was a huge celebration. It was the most joyous."

Charlie: "Within an hour, convoys started arriving at our house. From all corners of the land. The house was full of people for the first few days and we didn't leave Elor's side for a second."

^^^

In the last few months since his release, Elor has already gone twice on vacation with his parents to Eilat and his sister Dana, who is currently studying medicine in France. Next week they are planning another vacation, this time in Tiberias. "I don't like going abroad," he says. "Thank God, I prefer being here."

Before his release, Elor and his girlfriend Orel broke up. "It's personal. I don't want to get into that," he says quickly. "I respect her."

Every so often he goes out with friends in Ramle or in Rishon Lezion. He is mainly getting used to being a civilian again. "A lot of things have changed. Sometimes, when I go out for a stroll in the neighborhood with my parents, I realize that I don't remember the way anymore. I discover new buildings. This week I wanted to go to this bakery where I always ate white chocolate croissants. Turns out that it shut down a year and a half ago."

Q: What kind of responses do you get on the street?

"Everyone recognizes me. I get a lot of support, a lot of love. I told you, there's no one like the people of Israel. In Eilat, when we were on vacation, someone saw me in the hotel lobby after havdalah [the ceremony marking the end of Shabbat]. He introduced himself, told me he was an officer in an elite unit and said, 'Listen to me, you did what was right.' He gave me his number and offered to help me find a job. He offered to take care of me, with love."

Q: Have there been negative responses?

"I'll be honest, I haven't gotten one unsupportive comment. Everyone says I was justified.

"A month ago, I visited Hebron with my parents. I went back to where it all began. I went to pray in the Tomb of the Patriarchs. The soldiers there were apparently given an order not to talk to me so that no one would film us together. So they stood with their backs to me and said to me 'Elor, we love you.'

"We brought a lot of surprises for them – snacks, candy – but they couldn't take anything from me. So I gave everything to the residents of Hebron and asked them to give it to the soldiers."

Q: Were there friends who let you down? Severed contact?

"My friends gave me a lot of strength. From my first furlough, they came to my house wearing civilian clothes. Not in uniform, so that they wouldn't get in trouble.

"Not everyone was cool. I won't go into detail. Those who were good to me know how much I appreciate them. Friends from the army as well as friends from Ramle."  

Q: If this affair hadn't happened, where would you be today?

"I would be a month after my discharge and I believe that at this point I would already be working in a government, security job. Even before I enlisted, I knew that I would work in the security services. I wanted to be a bodyguard. My dream is to join the SWAT team. Everything was in place in my head. That was my direction in life.

"Before being drafted to the army I took prep courses, joined hikes, trained at the gym. In the evenings I went running. The plan was to be a combat soldier, possibly extend my service, then on to the security service. Straight ahead, no turning right or left.

"But over the last two years, I've become interested in studying law, so that I can help soldiers. Represent soldiers. After the injustice I suffered, I said, 'I'm going to help soldiers.' But after I did a little digging, I learned that I can study law but I can never be accredited because I have a record for manslaughter.

"I know that I will help soldiers in any way that I can, even as a simple civilian. Every soldier who asks for help, I will stand at attention for them. But all the things that I really wanted, all the things I had in my head, they're gone. Now I have to think about what I want to do. It won't be easy for me. I know that there are people high up who don't like me."

Q: Do you think your experience affected other soldiers' motivation? Do you think there is a decline in motivation?

"Soldiers know that the motivation has indeed declined. There are people who close their eyes and try to say that it hasn't, but that is the reality. After my first conviction, there was a ramming terrorist attack on the Armon Hanatziv promenade in Jerusalem. Four soldiers were murdered by a terrorist in a truck. I wasn't there and I won't judge by the footage, but ultimately, the soldiers who were there held back and didn't neutralize the terrorist. That says it all."

Q: If you were an attorney and Elor Azaria were to come to you. What would you advise the young soldier to do, in light of your experience?

"I would tell him to stick to his truth. I would find the best path for him. But if I understood that he is innocent, I would tell him to go all the way. Don't agree to the lies to please others, no way. Throughout the trial, I was shown a white spoon and told to say it was black. I insisted that it was white. I know that a lot of people didn't like it – so they didn't like it. I'm not too worried about it."

^^^

The IDF Spokesperson's Unit issued a response to the allegations raised in this interview: "The allegations were raised by Elor Azaria's attorneys throughout the trials, in the military court, the district court and the appellate court. The claims were reviewed and received detailed responses in the rulings. Most were dismissed unequivocally. Elor Azaria was convicted of a serious crime – manslaughter – and the verdict is clear and piercing. It sends a clear message on the topic of military values and the importance of the purity of arms. The verdicts speak for themselves."

The post 'I was taught to love Israel and to defend it' appeared first on www.israelhayom.com.

In an exclusive interview with Israel Hayom, Azaria, 21, who was convicted of manslaughter and conduct unbecoming, insisted that he has no regrets and said he was simply doing his job.

Azaria was released from prison three months ago after serving nine months of his 14-month sentence. He was also demoted from sergeant to private and has since been discharged from military service.

Azaria's trial and subsequent conviction sparked a heated public debate that all but split the country in half.

Many were outraged by the conviction, arguing that Azaria was a hero who did the right thing by taking the fight to the enemy, while others said his decision to shoot an injured and incapacitated terrorist who was probably no longer a threat was a stain on Israel's military.

"I am at peace with what I did, I acted properly and followed my inner truth. I did the right thing and this affair shouldn't have become what it did," Azaria told Israel Hayom.

"I have no remorse whatsoever," he stressed.

"No second-guessing at all. There is no doubt that if you took me back to those seconds in Hebron, when the event was unfolding, I would act exactly the same all over again because that is what had to be done."

During the interview, Azaria said he was moved by the love the Israeli public showed him.

"It is definitely heartwarming. The Israeli people have become one, they stood by us throughout the entire ordeal, and I would like to thank them for the help they provided me and my family at any given moment. This is far from obvious. There are simply no other people like the Israeli people," he said.

He said the affair has not undermined his sense of patriotism.

"I will always love my country and the IDF," Azaria said, noting that despite his trial and conviction he intends to carry out military reserve duty.

Recalling the day he shot terrorist Abdel Fattah al-Sharif, he said: "I saw him with a heavy black coat and I could hear people shouting, 'Someone shoot him.' There was a knife just next to him. I was there on site, I saw that the knife was there."

Azaria said he was sure the terrorist was carrying an explosive device.

"I acted on my instincts in the spur of the moment – it all culminated into that point and I acted in full accordance with what I was trained to do from the moment I became a combat soldier," he said.

"I cocked my weapon, I told the company and platoon commanders to move away and I shot him in the head, and that was the end of it. Just one shot."

Explaining the rationale behind the shot, he said the terrorist's head "was the only body part that was exposed, and I was taught in my medics course that when the head is hurt, the rest of the body is hurt."

Speaking about his questioning following the incident, Azaria said, "I was told by the interrogator, 'You are going to be charged with murdering a Palestinian.' I was shocked and answered, 'What murder? What's wrong with you? What Palestinian? He's a terrorist.' Even the chief interrogator couldn't come to terms with the truth I was saying. Later I realized that they were trying to fall in line with what the senior military officials had already told the press."

 Q: What do you mean?

"I was interrogated at 6 or 6.30 p.m. and two hours earlier Moshe Ya'alon, who was the defense minister at the time – and thank God is no longer in this position – issued a condemnation, as did the [IDF] chief of staff. Their statements gave the impression that the Military Police had already interrogated me and conducted a full debriefing," he said.

"Where is the logic in all this, if I was only interrogated two hours later? Let the people decide who is lying. The IDF Spokesperson's Unit issued a statement before I was even questioned saying that the chief of staff considers the case to be severe. Things would have been just fine had procedures being followed, had there been no miscarriage of justice and had senior officials kept silent rather than speak nonsense. I am still baffled by their behavior."

Azaria says the heavy criticism had no effect on him.

"I know I did what I was supposed to do, and there is nothing anyone can do to change my mind. That's why I appealed," he said.

"Despite people trying to dissuade me, I didn't give up. There is only one truth and I was going to go with it to the very end, with my head held high.

"People tried to make me settle [the case], make me express remorse and confess, but I insisted that I would not admit to anything. I have nothing to be sorry for. No one can get into the head of a combat soldier who is on active duty in hostile territory. I said I wasn't going to confess [to the charges] and wasn't going to express remorse, and I know that I acted appropriately. If I had had a fair trial I would have been fully acquitted and a lot of people would have had to lower their gaze."

Azaria insists that the military judicial system was skewed against him.

"During the appeal, we demonstrated how much obstruction there was during the legal proceedings, how the outcome was predetermined, how the witnesses were tampered with and how the facts were distorted," Azaria said.

"The key testimony, provided by my company commander, was deemed inadmissible, but the court still convicted me. An IDF soldier was thrown under the bus just so the Palestinians wouldn't launch a day of rage, as Ya'alon explained, even though the Palestinians have enough days of rage."

In response to Azaria's accusations in this interview, the IDF Spokesperson's Unit issued a statement saying, "These claims were raised by Azaria's defense during the trial and in two court instances. Azaria was convicted of a major crime, manslaughter, and the verdict speaks for itself."

The full interview will be published on Friday in Israel Hayom's weekend magazine.

The post 'I have no remorse for killing terrorist,' Hebron shooter says appeared first on www.israelhayom.com.