Meretz leader Nitzan Horowitz has a lot to say about Labor leader Amir Peretz and Gesher chief Orly Levy-Abekasis, but he doesn't attack them using harsh imagery like "sticking a knife in my back". That's not his style.
But it is precisely because of this characteristic restraint and the fact that he does not tend to outright attack rival politicians, that every word of critique that he throws at these two people, who ignored all their promises and statements immediately after the results for the last election came in, is piercing and poignant.
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When I asked him during the interview what he felt when he heard of their decision to turn their backs on him, he said: "I felt betrayed. I was in shock. People meet me on the street and tell me they feel that their vote was stolen. When people on the left asked me before the elections if I trust Orly Levy, who is the daughter of David Levy and was an MK in [Avigdor] Liberman's Yisrael Beytenu, I gave her a stamp of approval. I also feel like my votes were stolen. I didn't form a list with them so they could join a Netanyahu government."
Q: You're a fairly seasoned politician, why didn't any red lights flash for you when you signed the agreement with Labor and Gesher, when you knew that Peretz had already switched parties before and might do so again?
"When you sit opposite people and everyone decides to begin a joint campaign and they commit to it and shake hands, Peretz swore in all honesty and Orly Levy Abekasis stated she would not sit in a government led by Netanyahu and said that in the past she had turned down such an offer and even attacked Netanyahu with very harsh words, I believed them, but immediately after the elections, they left. She was the first to say she supports Netanyahu for prime minister, and after Peretz published his and Shmuli's decision to join Blue and White and enter the government."
Q: In retrospect do you think connecting Meretz to Gesher and Labor was naive on your part and showed unawareness to the fact that you're dealing with very devious politicians?
"For many years there was a desire on the Zionist Left for Labor and Meretz to join forces. Many people thought it was the right move, but what happened was that immediately after Gantz announced that the choice was between Netanyahu and Blue and White, the ideological parties on the Left and Right were hurt, meaning both Yamina and Labor and Meretz. Don't forget that Yamina didn't even pass the threshold in the April 2019 elections."
Public distrust
Q: What's the lesson you learned from these political events about the trustworthiness of politicians?
"This kind of behavior causes the public severe distrust in politics and politicians. It will be very hard in the next elections for parties to come to the public with promises because the public will not believe them."
Q: After the elections, did Peretz and Levy-Abekasis explain to you why their position changed so dramatically?
"They basically said that joining the government was preferable to a fourth round of elections because it will allow them to influence from inside and that besides that they were putting an end date on Netanyahu's rule. I don't think that's true. This was a major miss, there was another way. I don't believe there is an end date to Netanyahu as prime minister because I'm not sure the rotation will happen, and I don't think the Labor ministers have any influence whatsoever."
Q: How can we make sure that the phenomenon we saw in the last elections, where leaders break their promises to their partners, won't happen again? Maybe they should be fined?
"That's a question I don't have an answer for. Of course this behavior causes a crisis. I hope that in the next elections the public will remember the same people who betrayed the people they campaigned with, but the problem is that the public has a short memory. I think the solution is to vote for ideological parties. Meretz, for example, always stuck to its principles."
Q: After the elections in March, when the president gave the mandate to Gantz to form a government, did you try to convince him to form a minority government with the backing of the Joint Arab List?
"I had a few discussions with Benny Gantz and he told me a few times that the option of a minority government with Joint List support is a central option for him. He even spoke to them about it, and they even recommended that the president give him the mandate to form the government. The intention was not that the Joint List would be part of the government but would back it from outside."
Q: I presume that, as Meretz leader, you will think eight times before joining another party during an election.
"I learned my lesson. I'll think 80 times before joining another party and deciding to run in a united list."
Q: Do you believe the Netanyahu-Gantz government will last?
"Of course I hope it doesn't, but it's hard for me to know. On the one hand, they [Likud] gave Blue and White and the other partners in the coalition so many positions that they won't be motivated to break up the government, but on the other hand this coalition is not only large it's also cumbersome, and it will soon need to pass two tests: annexation and the budget. I believe the public is still not aware they are going to be heavily sanctioned because of the large budget cut that is needed."
Q: Did the Likud also offer you to join the coalition?
"When talks between the Likud and Blue and White began and also during the negotiations between them, Meretz was offered to join the government as part of Gantz's bloc. We were given commitments for senior positions in the government in order to agree, but it was clear to me and my faction colleagues that this was not an option. We committed to not sitting in a government with a man accused of crimes, and as opposed to others who did not keep their promises, Meretz did."
Q: Do you believe there's a chance for cooperation between Yesh Atid, Yisrael Beytenu, Yamina, the Joint Arab List and Meretz – or is that an impossible mission due to the stark differences between you?
"We have good cooperation with Yesh Atid and the Joint Arab List. With Yisrael Beytenu we have contact and Yamina is still sitting on the fence. There's a forum of leaders of opposition parties, but it has yet to convene since Yisrael Beytenu refuses to sit with the Joint List."
Q: You have recently begun a campaign against the Likud's intention to annex the Jordan Valley. Does this fight have any chance?
"We hope so. As part of the public campaign I am holding meetings with international figures to explain the dangers of annexation, this is how we're trying to increase the pressure on the government."
Q: Do you believe Blue and White will support the campaign against annexation?
"I hope that they and Labor will keep their promises. It's no coincidence that annexation was excluded from the topics that need government parity. On this issue each side can act as he sees fit. I call on Gantz and Ashkenazi to use their influence to block this. Gantz said he would support the Trump plan if there was an international agreement, but there's not even agreement from Jordan."
Can't shake the political bug
For many years before Horowitz, 55, entered politics he was a journalist. He served in Army Radio during the 1980s. We met for the first time then we covered the visit of then-Israeli President Chaim Herzog in Australia and New Zealand in 1986. Since then almost every time we meet, we recall our experiences from the trip where we also visited Fiji and other magical places. After his service, he worked as a journalist in Hadashot and Haaretz, and was the paper's correspondent in Washington and Paris, and head of the foreign news desk at Channel 10 News.
In 2009 Horowitz was elected to the Knesset and served until 2015. He was the chairman of the Committee on Foreign Workers and a member of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, the Internal Affairs and Environment Committee, and the Science and Technology Committee. In 2019 he decided to return to politics, and beat MK Tamar Zandberg in the leadership battle for Meretz. When he left parliament, he was asked in an interview why, and said: "I couldn't believe how much the Knesset is a market of wheelers and dealers. It is truly in contempt of public processes."
Q: Why did you decide to return to politics if you feel so negatively about it?
"I guess it's a bug that doesn't go away, even though my opinion of the Knesset hasn't changed. On the contrary, it is more disgusting today than it was in the past, but the question that bothers me is - will it be enough for me to speak about everything that bothers me outside of parliament, or should I try to work from within? I reached the conclusion that from within I will have more influence, and that's why I came back and ran to lead Meretz, and won. I came back to make a change and fight against the phenomenon in which the Knesset is a market of wheelers and dealers. That's why I refuse to join the government, even though they offered us."
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