While tens of thousands of Armenians are fleeing from Azerbaijan in the wake of the ongoing dispute over the Nagorno-Karabakh region, the Azerbaijani Ambassador to Israel spoke with Israel Hayom to share his perspective on the situation in his country. Ambassador Mukhtar Mammadov, the first-ever Azerbaijani ambassador to the Jewish state, has been in Israel for over six months. During the interview, he touts the strategic cooperation between the two nations and tries to duck questions on how to deal with Iran. But above all, he tries to dispel the notion that his government seeks to carry out ethnic cleansing against the fleeing Nagorno-Karabakh residents.
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Q: The refugees from recent days have expressed concern in global media that there would ethnic cleansing and say they don't want to live under Azerbaijani rule. Can you understand them?
"First and foremost, there is no ethnic cleansing in Azerbaijan. The Azerbaijani government has been calling on our Armenian citizens every day to stay. The president himself has declared that he regards them as Azeris. We want to grant them equal citizenship, religious and civil rights, and absolute protection. Since the start of the operation on September 19, when the Azerbaijani army and police entered Karabakh, they have noted acted against civilians. The operation was solely against military forces there. We had 10,000 illegal Armenian soldiers on our territory. Would Israel have accepted such a situation? See how the world reacts to armed groups.
"For three years, we waited and asked the international community to pressure Armenia to withdraw its forces, but nothing happened. Instead, more forces and weapons were brought into Azerbaijan. That's why we established the checkpoint at the Lachin corridor, to ensure that no more weapons or soldiers enter Karabakh. Contrary to reports in Armenia, we are not blocking medical assistance, and humanitarian aid; it is not true. Medical aid has been going in and out all the time."
Video: A visualization of a possible invasion by Iran / Caliber
The ambassador's comments come after the operation had concluded with Baku essentially conquering the entire disputed region, ending the long-standing conflict with Armenia, which included two wars, the latest of which was in 2020. Although the operation was a breach of the ceasefire, according to the ambassador it was legitimate action that any sovereign state would have taken. "We have uncovered tens of thousands of arms, including tanks, and we are still searching for more, which we know exist. Now the armed groups are laying down their weapons and going back to Armenia."
According to the ambassador, "The people leaving the area comprise two groups: The first – Armenian troops that have been there illegally who are now leaving after we asked them to go. We are not pursuing or arresting them; we simply say, lay down your weapons and go. The second group consists of Armenian civilians leaving because of misinformation spread by the Armenian government and media, telling them they will be killed there. However, all they received from us so far was support. We sent them tons of supplies – food, gas, and medicine. We connected them with our civilian relief teams. No one has been killed or executed."
Q: Over a hundred thousand people fled the country to Armenia. Is there no basis for their concerns?
"Armenians are the last ones who can talk about ethnic cleansing, as such ethnic cleansing happened against Azerbaijanis 30 years ago, in the 1990s. There were massacres, and tens of Azerbaijanis were killed, including children, the elderly, and women. So, Armenians are the last ones who can talk about ethnic cleansing. Azerbaijan is a multi-ethnic country, just like Israel, and none of our ethnic groups living here complain about ethnic cleansing, including Armenians residing in Baku. We have Russian and Jewish members of parliament, the ethnic groups study their languages in schools with their textbooks, newspapers, and places of worship. We know how to live in such an atmosphere and how to deal with these people. Therefore, we call on them to stay. If they want to leave, it's their decision, and we are open to discussing it if they want to return at some point."
When talking about ethnic cleansing being only on one part of the equation, he does not mention the massacre of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire during World War I.
Q: Was there Iranian involvement in this conflict, particularly in the recent operation?
"Iran stated that it sees this as an internal matter of Azerbaijan. Surprisingly, the Armenian government did not interfere either, and the border with Armenia remained calm during the military operation in Karabakh. We view this as a wise decision on their part after many mistakes. They chose not to interfere and to accept the reality. Now we believe the next wise decision from them would be to return to peace talks with Azerbaijan. After completing the military operation in Karabakh, there are no more obstacles, and we would be happy to resolve the conflict with them. Then we can open communication lines and borders, and in the end, the Armenian residents will benefit economically and diplomatically."
Q: And yet, the results of the operation strengthened you against Iran, which has pursued nuclear capabilities and has destabilized the region.
"The goal was not to be strong against any other country but to remove the hostile forces from our land that posed a threat to us. Azerbaijan has the right to defend itself and its citizens and to gain full control over our territory. In the long term, resolving the conflict over Karabakh will lead to our further development both economically and politically. But the goal was to provide a good life for our citizens and remove internal threats from them."
Q: Iran constantly violates its commitments to the IAEA, kicks out nuclear inspectors, and is reportedly getting closer to nuclear weapons. What is your position?
"Azerbaijan is a party to the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons Treaty and calls on all parties to fulfill their commitments under the agreements with the IAEA."
The relative stability in relations between Azerbaijan brings the ambassador to veer into more convenient topics, such as the thriving economic relations with Israel. Here too, he emphasizes that these relations are not intended to serve as a means to malign Iran. However, according to foreign reports, there is indeed an intention to use Azerbaijani territory by Israel to act against Iran. This has been denied many times by Azerbaijan, including in this interview.
"I have been asked about this many times, and I will give the same answer as I did then: We do not interfere in the internal affairs of other countries, and secondly, our relations with Israel are not aimed against another country. We do not allow other countries to use our territory for different purposes, just as we expect neighboring countries to not act against others on Azerbaijani soil."
It seems that the reference to Iran in the last sentence is clear, and it subtly hints at Iranian plots to target Israelis in Azerbaijan, which were reportedly thwarted in cooperation with Israel.
Reports of security deals and extensive exports from Israel to Azerbaijan make headlines, but Azerbaijanis expect the expansion of relations in all areas: business, cyber, technology, and agriculture. "We have a long and strategic partnership with Israel based on the relationships among the citizens due to the Jewish community that has been living with us for decades. Now, we want to expand our relations with Israel in agriculture, business, education, and health. We see the potential, and in some areas, we have already started working. For example, Minister of Agriculture Avi Dichter visited Baku and signed a roadmap for agricultural cooperation, and this is just the beginning."
The most flourishing area between the two countries is the sale of military technologies from Israel to Azerbaijan. "Every country in the world focuses mainly on this. Since we had occupied territory, it was important for us to invest in strong military technology to defend ourselves. Israel is one of the countries we work with on this, and we are grateful for Israel's support for Azerbaijan and cooperation. Our citizens appreciate it. This year, we established a cyber center with the Technion in Baku, where Azerbaijani experts are trained in cybersecurity. We believe that Israel's experience in these threats is very important, as well as in education for engineering and technology professions."
Q: What is your stance on the potential normalization of relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia?
"We believe that the normalization process that has begun in the Middle East will lead to more stability and peace in the region. Azerbaijan is also happy to see warming relations with Turkey, especially the recent meeting between Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Turkish President Recept Tayyip Erdogan in New York, as Turkey is a strategic ally of ours, and we want our friends to have good relationships among themselves, which creates more opportunities for cooperation.
"We were the first Shiite country to establish relations with Israel. We are pioneers in creating an atmosphere that allows for this rapprochement, and I believe that indirectly, we influenced the normalization with other Muslim countries. The relations between the two countries were an example for other countries in the region, showing that it is possible for a Shiite-majority country to establish relations with Israel without conflict and that the citizens of both countries respect each other. We are happy to contribute further to the normalization process, which will contribute to peace in the region and stability."
Q: What is your stance on uranium enrichment in Saudi Arabia and the suggestions that such approval will increase motivation for a nuclear arms race in the Middle East?
"We do not publicly comment on such matters. Many countries use nuclear energy as an energy source. We have oil and gas. In Europe, other countries use nuclear energy safely. So, if countries use it wisely, following all safety procedures and without other intentions, we do not interfere. But there is good use and bad use."
Q: Iran started with good intentions, and look where we are now. With the possibility of normalization with Saudi Arabia, Iran will not be comfortable with the expansion of Israel's peace sphere, which isolates it.
"Azerbaijan's position is that we see the relations with Israel as highly beneficial for both countries, and we do not consider this partnership to be against other countries. We do not interfere in the internal affairs of other countries, and we expect the same from other neighboring countries towards us."
Q: You vote against us at the UN in matters related to our internal affairs with the Palestinians.
"It's a complex system," the ambassador says while using evasive body language. "It's hard to keep all countries happy. Each path chosen will please some, and inevitably won't please others. Azerbaijan is an active player in the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, and it is the chair of the Non-Aligned Movement. There are certain arrangements that need to be taken into account. Each time we look at a different path and we see that the partnership with Israel has indeed grown over the years."
Q: You have been here for half a year now, so can we expect you to stand by our side in future votes?
"I will answer briefly in Hebrew: 'Parah, Parah.'"
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